John Sykes

[Neale1961]

As a gun maker, it is not surprising to see John Sykes living in Greenwich Kent when Isaac was born in 1817. He may have been working at the near-by Royal Arsenal in Woolwich.

But since the children Mary Alice and Isaac both marry in the Tower Hamlets area in 1840 and 1841, it makes one think the family might have moved back to that area at some point.

Have you found Isaac Sykes in the 1841 census?

[Aquitaine]

Thank you Neale for the extra details.  I have to confess I am a bit lost in London!

[Aquitaine]

Hello Neale

I think you have found them!  The marriage of Mary Alice Sykes with fathers occupation gun maker is definitely our John Sykes!  What a brilliant find.

I have been trying to find a good site with old London Streets online which might help me as well.

I dont have Isaac Sykes 1841 ...he was a tailor and died in Essex.

Isnt it strange that John Sykes married a Mary Sykes..

[Neale1961]

It would be good to find Mary Alice Sykes in the 1841 census, which is before she married.

Also you might try to follow up on the witnesses at the marriages to see if that gives you more family leads.

[Aquitaine]

Cheers Neale!

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Can I add a lead for Mary Sykes the wife.
Mary Sykes bapt 9.11.1788 Whitechapel d of Isaac and Sarah Sykes Elephany and Castle Court.
This address was just round the corner from Red Lion St where Mary Alice was born.
Red Lion St was off Whitechapel Hight Street as you head out of London.Elephant Court was on the High St slightly further along before you got to Church Lane .
Isaac is on the London Tax Records there 1788-1808.
It looks like he married 3 times .
Sarah Richardson 4.12.1787 Shoreditch
Jane Osbourne 18.7.1790 Shoreditch with whom he had a son James 10.7.1791 Whitechapel
Amelia Trundell banns 1797 Shoreditch (perhaps the sister of Sarah who married Francis Sykes of rosemary Lane 21.12.1785 at Wapping.(Francis 1766-4.7.1827 Wapping had a daughter Caroline bapt 26.12.1798 Whitechapel who may just be the witness to John and Mary's wedding.

An Isaac Sykes was found not guilty of passing counterfeit money 14.10.1796 .If this was him he was a member of the Poulter company it seems.
Isaac was alive 1808 so his burial may be at the Non Conformist chapel 5.10.1820 at Commercial Road. I can't find a baptism for Isaac or Francis Sykes.They would be born 1760s.

If we look for a Gunmaker ,then we find John Sykes of Rosemary Lane in the 1790s.
In 18.9.1799 he takes on an apprentice James Holland from the workhouse.
6.11.1797 his son John is apprenticed to William Lacy as a cutler for seven years which leads to him as Freeman of the City of London 1804.
Joseph Sykes born 1815 of Princes St s of John Sykes cutler is also admitted 6.7.1837.
There seems to be only one Joseph Sykes born 1814/1815 son of John -- yours.
Could you John Sykes gunmaker have originally been a cutler before taking over his father's business as gun maker? A push but it seems to fit.

John the elder gun maker is actually at Salt Petre Bank next to Rosemary Lane on the Land Tax 1787-1794.
He married Mary King at Whitechapel 21.5.1782.
Son John Sykes born Church Lane 15.6.1783 ,Ann and Francis twins 10th July 1785 Petre bank.

Looking at it I think John Sykes gun maker and his wife Mary married 1809 were probably first cousins.Their addresses are really close.
                           Whitechapel road (Elephant and Castle Court)
                       Red lion st   l           l    Church Lane
                       Lemon St     L          l--------------Commercial Road
                       White Lion St           l
Rosemary Lane   (Salt Petre Bank)Cable St   
                                                 l Princes St

All in a big wonky square.

Just an idea.Don't want to put my foot in it.

Ciderdrinker

[Aquitaine]

Hello Ciderdrinker and Neale

I am amazed at the latest results finding the Sykes family, certainly considered research I dont know what to say but many thanks - amazing - it must have taken you a while. It is a Yorkshire surname.

I havent found Mary A Sykes (Mary Alice) on 1841 as yet.  I did find the Caroline bpts which I thought could be (witness).

Which are the best maps for London the Charles Booth poverty ones to find streets ?
 

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning.
Yes I love the Charles Booth Maps.They are so informative.
There are also Old Ordnance Survey maps at National Library of Scotland but you do need some idea of where the street was.
https://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/Old_to_New_Abolished_London_Street_Names.htm#R
Gives the new name of streets for London but it's not as comprehensive as I'd like.

Locating London https://www.locatinglondon.org/
is supposedly good but basically it's the 1746 map and not much else as far as I can see.Maybe it's me.

Ciderdrinker