Fox Hall Newydd. Henllan.

[wilcoxon]

https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/300001055-foxhall-newydd-henllan#.YcngVibLepo

 I have a Roberts family who were at Fox Hall Newydd from at least 1851 until 1878
22nd June 1878 Wrexham Guardian.
ROBERTS—On the 16th inst. at Foxhall Newydd, Denbigh, aged 63 years, Mr Thomas Roberts, gamekeeper.
If this Fox Hall Newydd was never lived in , where did  my family live. .
Thanks

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I'm not sure why you think Foxhall Newydd was never lived in? There's newspaper references to various families living there

[wilcoxon]

Yes I know that,  mine was one of them,  but was there another Fox Hall Newydd in the same area. I am only going by what I found. Perhaps cottages or another property. 🤔

[Milliepede]

Fox Hall and Foxhall indicate two different types of dwelling ie Fox Hall sounds like one particular building whereas Foxhall sounds more like an area.

[Ruskie]

Fox Hall and Foxhall indicate two different types of dwelling ie Fox Hall sounds like one particular building whereas Foxhall sounds more like an area.

This makes sense. Newydd means “new” and Foxhall Newydd is the name of the listed building. In the description, it mentions Foxhall Woods and just plain Foxhall so there are a number of “Foxhalls”.

If I were you I would look at the family on the censuses to see where they were living and who they were living with, as well as the neighbouring residences, which may clarify.

You would normally expect a gamekeeper to live in a cottage on a property.

[Ruskie]

I’m confused now.

Looking at the Robert’s family in the 1871 census, they are the only family living at Foxhall Newyd. The neighbouring Foxhall Has another Robert’s (related do you know?) farmer of 330 acres, employing men and servants. Looking at maps it is a much larger residence:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15.92624186187002&lat=53.19569&lon=-3.45044&layers=6&right=ESRIWorld

According to the description, Foxhall Newyd was unfinished and abandoned at the end of the C18 and by the end of the C19 was already ruinous. Not sure what that means for the Robert’s family - perhaps they were living within the ruins or in a cottage in the vicinty? 

In the 1861 census I didn’t see any mention of Foxhall Newyd which makes me wonder if it was uninhabited. Thomas Roberts’ address was “Foxhall Bach”. Looking at the Welsh dictionary Bach means lesser or minor. Next address was Foxhall with the same Roberts family as in 1871 living there.

 The question is, was Foxhall Bach another name for Foxhall Newydd, or were the Roberts living on the Foxhall estate in a smaller lesser dwelling than Foxhall?

1851:

Thomas Roberts and family are at Foxhall Newyd but Thomas is a labourer and they have a servant in the house.

The Owens family are living next door at Foxhall with many servants.

Then listed separately there is an Evans family also at Foxhall Newyd, with head of family being a gamekeeper.

So no clearer. 

[Ruskie]

There is a huge amount of detail about Foxhall here:

https://discoveringoldwelshhouses.co.uk/library/Hhistory/den%20106_HH_30_Foxhall.pdf
including mention of your Roberts family starting around page 23/24.

At the top of page 23 is mention of a cottage alongside Foxhall Newyd where in residence in the 1841 census is a Thomas Wynne, Gamekeeper.

I did not read the entire book, but to me it is still not fully clear if the listed ruin known as Foxhall Newyd was the home of your Roberts family or if Foxhall Newyd was the name of the estate, and they lived in a cottage on that estate. That seems to make more sense to me. The book confirms that Foxhall Bach and Foxhall Newyd are one and the same.

[wilcoxon]

Thanks.
A bit about Thomas and the local copper in court
Not neccessarily in the right order. 


https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3599385/3599392/39/



https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3599394/3599402/59/

[hanes teulu]

Can you clarify where you discovered "never lived in?".
The link in your post 1 mentions "... never completed ..." but goes on to say "... The finished section was, however, fully fitted out and inhabited ...".

There is a gamekeeper occupying "Foxhall Newydd" in '81.