Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784

[Windsor87]

In September 1879 my great great great grandmother gave birth to illegitimate twins James and Samuel Garden. Their father was not stated on birth certificates, but it became clear through subsequent years that they were children of a Mr Dalgarno. When James Garden married, he gave his name as James Dalgarno, and registered his son as a Dalgarno too before changing his mind and reverting back to Garden. Samuel stuck to Garden, but on his marriage record it was stated that his mother was previously Mrs Dalgarno (which she never was).

From the minutes of Peterhead Kirk Session, 5th November 1878:

Compeared Margaret Garden, Broad Street,
who confessed that she had given birth
to a child in fornication on the 17th June
last and charging as the Father James
Morrison, Stone Cutter, Windmill Street.
Neither party being in communion with
the Church, the case was delayed till
they should seek admission.

Excellent. Yes, there were a few. Margaret was in the Police Court looking for ailment money from a butcher - another father.

Was hopeful that there may be something in the Kirk Session records for the twins but, alas, no.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Nice to meet you. That is interesting stuff. I looked into the names you were giving and I see what's going on there. Still a bit confused at how exactly James Dalgarno that fathered the twins ties back to JD that married Mary Ramsay.

 I do know my illegitimate-born great great great grandmother Margaret Dalgarno had brothers Henry Flockhart , George Ramsay and William Boyes...but I hadn't followed their kids very much. Most of those brothers died young as I remember.

Henry 1828 , George 1821 , William 1825... never could find my grandmother Margaret Dalgarno's birth info. There is a record from 1823 that is intriguing:

DALGARNO
-----
JAMES DALGARNO/
U
01/06/1823
232/

Unknown Dalgarno born in Peterhead to James Dalgarno , witnesses James Cruickshank and William Boyes. I kind of hope this isn't Margaret as she he had my grandfather in 1836 and so be 13 for birth. Her document could simply be missing and this is a sibling who perhaps died at birth.

Is it the James born to Henry and Isabella Willox that (possibly) connects us?

DALGAIRN
JAMES
HENRY DALGAIRN/ISABELLA WILLOX
M
12/07/1852
232/


Also ... I was wondering if there are 2 Helen Gardens in 1881? ...one is listed as 54 (from Peterhead) living with husband John and grandsons the twins James and Samuel on Broad st  the other was a James Dalgarno aged 25 in New Deer (from New Deer)with wife Jane , son James 4 and a Helen Garden 53 from Fraserburgh. Same Helen?

In 1877 I see that James Dalgarno lived at 12/3 Broad street and John Garden lived at 12/5 Broad. I'm assuming mother of twins lived with John and Helen at the time?

DALGARNO
JAMES
Tenant Occupier
STORE NO 29 31 BROAD STREET
PETERHEAD
1893

DALGARNO
JAMES
Tenant Occupier
HOUSE NO 31 G BROAD STREET
PETERHEAD
1893

1893 James occupied a place at 31 Broad and is also listed as occupying a store.

He was the son of Henry, who was the son of James who was the son of James and Mary Ramsay.

Re-read that a few times... I get it now.

James Dalgarno , son of Henry Flockhart had a sister named Isabella. I am DNA related as a "common-relative" to some folks on ancestry via Henry Flockhart...again , brother of my great x3 grandmother Margaret Dalgarno (later married a Smith).

The family names starting with Dalgarno in that line are all Gaelic. Cruikshank , Gammack, Ramsay , Ogston

[Alan of Kaslo]

I'm still admittedly confused as to how you deduced James Dalgarno of broad street is the son of Henry Flockhart Dalgarno? I've tried several times to re-read everything. I see a James Dalgarno on Broad street in the valuations in 1893 but I can't find anything that ties him to Henry Dalgarno ...besides being in Peterhead. What am I missing?

Is this death doc where you got the clues?

DALGARNO
MARGARET
30
HARDIE
1879
232/1 37
Peterhead

We know from the 1881 census that 28 year old widower James Dalgarno -carter, lived at 11 Lodge Watch with parents Henry and Isabella and his kids.

Cheers.

[Alan of Kaslo]

We're back .... 

Hello all. I have been recently looking into my Dalgarno relatives again. I never did get much further then where I was when I left this thread last time. A couple tantalizing clues did emerge though. First a recap:

My great Grandmother was Margaret Dalgarno from Aberdeenshire. She had my Grandfather James Mutch out of wedlock on 21/05/1836 at Peterhead. The father was Joseph Mutch. On his death the cert for James Mutch says the same...born illegitimate.. it lists his mother as Margaret Smith. I know it's the correct death cert for James because it correctly lists his wife Ann Chapman.

That lead me to find the 18/11/1852 marriage of Margaret Dalgairn and George Smith. This couple had 2 kids from what I can see. George and Isabella. Then George the father dies leaving Margaret widowed in 1854.

Meanwhile I had earlier followed ancestry trees (never a good idea) and put Margaret Dalgarno's birth at 1821. Based on that I found the corresponding census entry for a Margaret Dalgarno who lived at Aughtygall in 1841 with parents James Dalgarno and Sophia Crookdhank:

1841 census:
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a140390f4040b9d6ee7f093/margret-dalgarno-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1821-?locale=en

it says omitted from previous page. When you go to the previous page there is this entry:

https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14038ff4040b9d6ee7ede9/sophia-dalgarno-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1791-?locale=en

Interestingly this Margaret Dalgarno above is with a young girl named Elspet Mutch. My Grandfather  James Mutch is nowhere to be found. I did some looking and found him nearby at Blackhill with a crofter named William Taylor:
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14038ff4040b9d6ee7ee23/jas-mutch-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1836-?locale=en

So that is where things stood earlier. I was still under the impression that Margaret Dalgarno's parents were as listed on the 1841 Aughygall census ...James Dalgarno and Sophia Cruickshank. After Sophia dies you even see Margaret Smith with daughter Isabella and father James Dalgarno labourer.

https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026aefe9379091b1db68c8/isabella-smith-1861-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1853-?locale=en

The problem is that my Grandfather was born 21/05/1836 and so would make Margaret only 14/15 years old for the birth if she was born in 1821. After awhile I just forgot about it until recently I got a notification that I had a new DNA relative listed.

This person was related via a woman named Jane Kennedy born about 1831 to a Margaret Dalgairn who died 1874. Parents listed as James Dalgarno and Jane Taylor. I got the death cert (attached) and it does contain that info. No mention of the name Smith. There is a big question mark so there was some confusion... She dies in Blackhill which is where James Mutch was at age 5 with William Kennedy.. The witness is a James Willox who is the husband of Jane Kennedy and it says son in law to Margaret. It also says she was 74 years old so born 1800/1801.

This Margaret fits in a lot of ways ... her age , she dies in Blackhill , son in law is the right person.

I found them in 1841 census:
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a13ff36f4040b9d6ee2e07a/margret-dalgarno-1841-aberdeenshire-longside-1801-?locale=en

So this is the crux of my current confusion ... 

Which Margaret Dalgarno is the correct one for me? How can there be a Margaret Dalgarno with daughter Jean Kennedy in 1841aged 40 and a Margaret Dalgarno living with Elspet Mutch at Autygall aged 20 and I'm somehow related to both ...

The ages given for Margaret Dalgarno who lived at Aughtygall always line up with being born about 1821. She consistently gives her age as born 1821 and lists James Dalgarno widowed labourer as her live-in father.

It gets a bit more complicated as I am also DNA related to children of Henry Flockhart Dalgarno. He is the son of James Dalgarno and Sophia Cruickshank. He was born 15/07/1828 at Peterhead. James and Sophia married 1817.

So it seems that James Dalgarno who married Sophia Cruikshank is related to my Margaret Dalgarno ...even if he isn't her father. I had thought James could possibly be her uncle but found no proof. The death cert for James Dalgarno 1787-1853 says his father was a blacksmith and his mother was Margret Ramsay whereas Margaret Dalgarno who died 1874 lists father as James Dalgarno weaver and mother Jane Taylor.

That JD and Taylor combo sounds like the one mentioned earlier in this thread and on this grave:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/232471357/jane-dalgarno
I  believe the above James Dalgarno , wearver , was at Blackhill also in 1841:
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1400e1f4040b9d6ee4d3d8/james-dalgarno-1841-aberdeenshire-slains-1758-?locale=en

If anyone has time to look at this I'd be thankful. I'm trying to tease out what goes on there with Margaret Dalgarno. Is there 2 of them or one that gives false info on censuses? Or can I be related somehow to both? Thanks in advance. I am rereading the current thread as there was a lot discussed and there may be stuff that has been already brought up.

Attached is the 1874 death of Margaret Dalgairn at age 74. Parents James Dalgarno weaver and Jane Taylor. I actually had this document years before finding the  DNA relative of Jane Kennedy. I had discounted it because of the 74 in 1874 age that dated her to 1800/1801.

[Alan of Kaslo]

I was also going to mention that I am showing DNA relative connections to siblings of James Dalgarno 1757-1845 (the weaver from the grave stone). They are George 1765 and Marjory 1763.

Here's a list of the children of James and Jane Taylor:

John Dalgarno
1789–1831
George Dalgarno
1793–1847
Margaret Dalgarno
1800–1874
Christian Dalgarno
1801–1875
Jane Dalgarno
–1847
Elizabeth Dalgarno
–1866

Noticeably there is no James Dalgarno above.

There are only two J D's born at the time in Aberdeenshire:
One on 31/12/1768 and the one born 15/11/1787 to J D and Margaret Ramsay. The first says it's for a child named James father unkown dead Dalgarno. Bapitzed. Witness Andrew Walker & Jean Mord. 

I just have to figure out how James Dalgarno 1787-1863 is related to James Dalgarno 1757-1845 and Jane Taylor... and how the two Margaret's are related.

One thing for sure is my Grandmother married George Smith and in the 1861 census that Margaret Smith has to be her...
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026aefe9379091b1db68c6/margaret-smith-1861-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1821-?locale=en
father James Dalgarno , daughter Isabella Smith , windmill street etc Since there are obviously many records missing from the time Margret's birth could be closer to 1817 marriage for James (even though census says 1821 birth).  At any rate there must be a connection between James Dalgarno 1757 weaver and James Dalgarno 1787 son of Margaret Ramsay. The latter was born in Cruden.

I might have got caught up in the DNA excitement and not thought it through properly. All I know is I am related somehow to Margaret Dalgarno 1800 daughter of James Dalgarno 1757, possibly an Aunt and at the same time related to Margaret Dalgarno 1817-1821 , who is my Grandmother (I have all the documents). It seems that she never raised my Grandfather James Mutch and he instead lived with a crofter named William Taylor at Blackhills. He was 60 in 1861 born about 1781. Possibly a nephew or brother to Jean Taylor. Regardless , if Margaret is James Mutch's mother then her parents seem to be Sophia Crookshank and James Dalgarno 1787. Which brings me back to square one on how to connect James 1757 and James 1787.

Again, any help greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Back with an update...

I feel like I was floundering around there and not really getting much progress. The best thing I did was reread this thread. Most of the answers I'm seeking were already addressed earlier.

It comes down (as first mentioned by Neale I believe):

It appears that there are two brothers John and William Dalgarno near New Deer and each of them is having kids around 1750/1760's . People on ancestry have come to believe that William & John are the same person but I don't think it's the case. Both were married to someone named Margaret Sangster.

It was John Dalgarno having a son named James in 1757 at Clochan with Margaret Sangster., witness John Sangster

Meanwhile William Dalgarden has son James in 1759 at Little Auchloch with witness George Sangster. It doesn't say wife was Margaret Sangster but it seems implied.

To the best of my knowledge James Dalgarno 1757 from John is the same one who is the weaver of Blackhills mentioned on the grave:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/232471280/james_dalgarno

I believe:
JD 1757 first married Margaret Gall and then Jane Taylor in 1788
JD 1759 married Margaret Ramsay 1781  and then possible Helen Hay in 1801 (no clues on this marriage doc)

So that's where it stands... I'm trying to find definitive prove that William and John are two different people, likely brothers that each had a son named James. If the documents are correct James Dalgarno who married Margaret Ramsay should be a blacksmith.

On SP the two are listed side by side and it looks like they are two different people:


Dalgarno   
James
John Dalgarno/Margaret Sangster
M
08/11/1757
228
10 / 88
Old Deer

Dalgardon
Margaret
William Dalgardon/Margaret Sangster
F
16/04/1758
225
20 / 124
New Deer

I believe this James 1759 from the same William is the father of JD 1787 and married Margaret Ramsay (and possibly later to a Hay). So he would be cousin to JD 1757 the weaver of Blackhill.

Dalgarden
James   
William Dalgarden
M
20/04/1759
225
20 / 129
New Deer

Above: William is at Little Auchioch New Deer and John is at Clochan Old Deer.

It all hinges on whether James Dalgarno 1759 was a blacksmith at Earlseat Cruden ...

Forfarian already mentioned a bunch of this earlier and I'm thankful!

I feel like I have already received a bunch of help on this... but if anyone has any insights I'd be greatly appreciative! Anyone who has any opinions, comments , critiques... please feel free to chime in!

Attached: James Dalgarden birth 1759 -father William Dalgarno  Little Auchoch