St.Columba industrial school mayo

[joan]

Thank you all for your replies and I apologise for the delay in replying.  I will try and explain why I wanted to get the records of St. Columba.  I have been doing my husband's family tree for a number of years and have decided that I can get no further but just thought I would check on a couple of things that had puzzled me.  His gt.gt. Uncle was a John Browne who married a Catherine Kirby in Islandeady on 8th March 1868 and they had four children : Thomas 1870, William 1872, Honor 1874 and Mary Anne 1876, wife Catherine died in 1877 and John remarried in 1878 to another Catherine, this time Catherine O'Malley this couple had at least three children born in Ireland but they then moved to Lancs. circa 1881/2.   I was always puzzled by the fact that in the 1891census, their first census in England there was no mention of the first four children and I assumed that they must have died as I had found mention of the death of Mary Anne in 1883, why else would you leave young children behind?  So whilst doing a last, as I thought, check on these children I discovered a reference to Petty Session Court Registers in this register there is a mention of two girls, one Honor Browne aged 5 of Cogaula and a Mary Anne Browne aged 3 also of Coguala under the name of witnesses was  Mary Kirby for the complainant (grandmother?) the two girls were accused of begging in Westport they were described as orphans having lost one parent and living with their father and had no visible means of subsistence.  On the 25th of SEptember 1879 they were sent to St. Columba Industrial School and Honor was said to be detained until 25th Sept. 1890 and Mary Anne until the 25th Sept. 1892.  It a way it does not make sense John had remarried by 1879 so did wife no.2 not want the children from his  first wife?

Obviously with the death of Mary Anne in 1883 I assumed, probably wrongly that she died at ST. Columba so I thought that if I could find some records of entries or releases or deaths relating to these girls I could confirm whether or not they were part of my husband's tree.  I could find no positive mention anywhere of Thomas or William.

So there you have it the reason why I was looking for any records.  I must admit I thought it a bit harsh that such young childen were treated in this way.

thanks for reading this, Joan

 

[Maiden Stone]

       wife Catherine died in 1877 and John remarried in 1878 to another Catherine, this time Catherine O'Malley this couple had at least three children born in Ireland but they then moved to Lancs. circa 1881/2.
 
 why else would you leave young children behind?  So whilst doing a last, as I thought, check on these children I discovered a reference to Petty Session Court Registers in this register there is a mention of two girls, one Honor Browne aged 5 of Cogaula and a Mary Anne Browne aged 3 also of Coguala under the name of witnesses was  Mary Kirby for the complainant (grandmother?) the two girls were accused of begging in Westport they were described as orphans having lost one parent and living with their father and had no visible means of subsistence.  On the 25th of SEptember 1879 they were sent to St. Columba Industrial School and Honor was said to be detained until 25th Sept. 1890 and Mary Anne until the 25th Sept. 1892.  It a way it does not make sense John had remarried by 1879 so did wife no.2 not want the children from his  first wife?

 I must admit I thought it a bit harsh that such young childen were treated in this way.

2nd wife Catherine gave birth to daughter, Bridget, August 1879. Informant, later in August, was called Murray and his qualification was "present at birth". Do you know who he was? Why did John, father of the baby, not register the birth? A likely answer is that he wasn't around. He might have gone to Britain to work. Is there any evidence that John was at home when his daughters were found begging?
How much land did John have? Was it enough to feed a wife & several children when the potato crop failed as it did in 1879? Obviously not, as the children were considered to be without means of subsistence. Were the family facing eviction?
My great-grandmother in Mayo was convinced the whole family were going to starve to death that summer. She'd survived "An Gorta Mor" 3 decades earlier and feared 1879 was going to be a  repeat of it.
Catherine may have been concentrating on keeping herself & baby alive. They may both have been ill, hungry and weak. The girls may have wandered off or she may have sent them out to beg.

Industrial schools were set up to care for orphaned, neglected or abandoned children. The purpose was to provide them with an education and training for an occupation. The girls may have been trained for work as domestic servants if they'd stayed.     

[heywood]

That’s a sad story, Joan.
I recall a ‘Who do You Think You Are’ programme, or similar, where there was a story of a child being taken off the street (Dublin) and sent to an Industrial School.  This was later  than yours. The child was supposedly just playing close to home but the authorities had great power.

Maiden Stone has given a likely scenario there.

Do you have Honor in later years. I have just come across some published trees which show her marrying Robert McNamara in Chicago.
Here is 1900 census - Robert and Nora with children and brother in law Thomas Brown b 1872. You mention you have no positive mention of the two sons. This looks possible and you may have noted it already.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSQH-842

[heywood]

Thomas Brown death 1935
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NQF4-CMP

[heywood]

Honora McNamara death (transcribed as Sdnora)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N73G-6ZB

[heywood]

Going back to the girls and the Industrial School, you could try the library in Castlebar as Kiltaglassan suggests. I have had help from there before, in person and by email.
The only online references I can see to the establishment are about more recent events.

[wivenhoe]

"John remarried in 1878 to another Catherine, this time Catherine O'Malley "

Who are the witnesses on this marriage certificate?.......who might be relatives and have an interest in the children who have lost their mother, 1877?

[Kiltaglassan]

"John remarried in 1878 to another Catherine, this time Catherine O'Malley "

Who are the witnesses on this marriage certificate?.......who might be relatives and have an interest in the children who have lost their mother, 1877?

Here's the link-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11112/8067610.pdf

John Browne to Catherine MALLY.
Witnesses: Mary Mally? Patrick Mally?

[Owenwee]

 If you Google Convent of Mercy Westport, you will find listed a Facebook page, you can click on the administrator  and read the comments from people that were brought up at St Columbias, even though this was from 1930's -1960's you can get a sense of the hardships they went through. The conditions when the Browne girls attended could only have been guessed.

Just for note the last part of the building in Westport is about to be demolished.  I have found during my research that families are often broken up after the death of parent usually the mother, the children normally are taken in by the mothers side, looks like Mary Kirby did have child Mary living with her at the time of death, i see there is a Headstone for Mary Kirby and her husband online  which is quite large, i imagine from this they were not poor.