trying to find

[rosieapple]

Hello all, excuse me, if i have posted this, on the board, but i havent been on here, for a long while, and i have forgotten, how to use the boards.
I am trying to find my ancestor. He was a John Tutty.
All i know was that John was born around 1780c and in 1881, he was a valet, I know that would make him 100 years old, but his son mention this fact, on his marriage record,, at his 2nd marriage. it could be that he 'forgot' to add that this fact, was when his father was alive, and that he was now deceased, but, it was not mentioned, on the cert.
I know the son, also John, was from Dublin, according to the census, but have read that a lot of Tuttys came from Wicklow. I also read about someone who was originally from Wexford, then to Wicklow, then his family moved to Dublin.
I have been looking at the naming process, for the son's family, and his first daughter was Mary Ann, so, maybe HIS mother was a Mary Ann. I have been looking on allthe usual websites, ancestryt, findmypast, irishgenealogy.ie, familysearch, but cannot find anyone that fits the bill, date-wise, with the name John, having a son John, for that date.
I think the son, John, was born around 1821 and have seen the baptism record for a Jno Tutty, in 1819, and  marriage of John Tutty to a Bridget Rowe, but cannot confirm that either of these have any connections. John, the son, went to England, and I have all the records, for him, from then on.
I wonder if someone might be able to help. I think the clue is probably the fact that the son said his father was a valet, and so have to lookl for big houses etc, where he could have worked. There was a Thomas Pimm who one John Tutty worked for, i think, as is on one of the records, but could this be him,or did he just rent the house and land , not work for Thomas. Sorry, my first posting  this time is such a long one. Thank you all.

[Milliepede]

I would doubt he was valeting at 100 years old.  I don't know about Irish marriage certificates but I know English ones often don't say "father deceased" even if they were so something to keep in mind.

Is he on the 1881 census?

[Milliepede]

For info

John Tutty married Everilda Blake 12 Jul 1881 Croydon Surrey

but they seem to be living as man and wife in 1851/1861/1871? 

Possible first marriage John Tutty printer to Emma Burris in 1845.

Sorry if you have all this just setting the scene.  Father John Tutty a glass blower on that marriage.

[aghadowey]

Irish marriage certificates do not always indicate if father was deceased.

[rosieapple]

Thank you, both. Yes, I do have all details, of son. John, after moving to England. Just trying to find his father. There are so many Tuttys. His son said he was from Dublin, but wondered if maybe born in Wicklow, as this is where most Tuttys were from, then perhaps his father moved.  I wasn't sure if anyone could try to find a John Tutty, with a father, John. I am having problems fitting in the couple I found, with the dates. I appreciate your time and help. Thank you

[aghadowey]

I have been looking at the naming process, for the son's family, and his first daughter was Mary Ann, so, maybe HIS mother was a Mary Ann.

Irish naming pattern, which not all families followed, was to name eldest daughter after mother's mother, second daughter after father's mother, third daughter after mother ...
However, even if the family did follow this custom other factors could throw this off, For example what if both grandmother's were called Mary or both grandmother's & mother all called Mary ...

All i know was that John was born around 1780c and in 1881, he was a valet ... I think the son, John, was born around 1821 and have seen the baptism record for a Jno Tutty, in 1819, and  marriage of John Tutty to a Bridget Rowe, but cannot confirm that either of these have any connections.

How did you calculate the father's approx. age? If John was born c1821 and father c1780 then father was about 41 when he was born. Not impossible, of course, but from the limited details you have so far I can't see any way to work out father's age.

Here's the 1819 marriage of John Tutty & Bridget Rowe-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=haddington_road_mf_1798-1866_ba_ma_0124

[rosieapple]

Thank you. I had read about the naming pattern and had thought the same. I had found a John married to a Mary, with his father, aJohn. There was a surname of White, for the mother, but can't find any other details. However, one family I was following, had a Robert Tutty, marrying a Margaret White.
This was in Rathfarnham. Could just be a coincidence, but very very few John's, with father, John, let alone the coincidence of the mother's surname.
All very much a case if surmissing, rather than factual. The father 's age is completely speculation. There was a Jno Tutty, baptised in 1793,
I really appreciate you raking the time, to help, thank you

[LH]

Hi

It might help if you know the religion of the father John, who you suspect was born c. 1780?

Do you know whether son John married his first wife in Ireland?

Kind regards

[rosieapple]

Thank you, for replying, to my post.
I am not sure what religion, John, the son was, although he did marry his first wife, in England, in a church of England church, and when his wife died, he married, again, in COE, so may have changed religion, as most of the Tuttys, i have looked at, where RC
Thank you