Scamp/Williams Family in Wales

[osprey]

that explains the US birth of Phoenix. There's another Phoenix, daughter of John & Edengell born in 1873 but there's a possible death reg the following year.

[Talacharn]

Hi All,
Attempting to make sense of the Scamp/Williams family, I searched on RootsChat and found this thread, which I started and had totally forgotten about. (It must be my age.)

I looked through the GRO for Williams (Scamp) with mmn Boswell from 1855 when Thomas Williams married Sarah Boswell. Having found children, I have struggled to place them on any census. I also tried to locate them within the Oral Scamp list from Liverpool University, that was also shown on Romany Genes. From the list, I created a family tree starting with ‘Raili Scamp (Eat-The-Cat) sp. Vansi Lee, daughter of Sam Lee’, I added their children according to the list. Then I added the grandchildren. I was looking for Thomas Williams who married Sarah Boswell. It took ages before I realised they are on the list as ‘Tom Scamp (? Hairy Tom, sp. Sally Lovel, emigrated to America) sp. Sally, daughter of Dick Boswell and Kitty Evans’. The name changes confused until the penny dropped and I saw the link.

Eric Trudgill has not listed any children for Thomas Williams and Sarah Boswell, though they emigrated to America, but I do not know when.

There are two couples that would be recorded as Williams mmn Boswell. Within the thread, Osprey offered several baptisms and of the children I found, most can be placed with Samuel Williams (Scamp) and Pianna Boswell.

Does anyone know when Thomas and Sarah Williams (nee. Boswell but also called Lovel and also called Sally) emigrated to America, and if they had any children before leaving? Her parents were Richard (Dick) Boswell and Catherine (Kitty) Evans, so I do not know where Lovel originated from.

There is a registration I found with a distinctive name. I have seen the name somewhere before, but cannot remember where, though could have been on Romany Genes. Any ideas? Lingamvile Williams . mmn Boswell . Aug-Sep 1865 . Pontypool . Volume 11a . Page 123. It is a shame the Romany Genes website is no longer available, in being such a useful resource.
Talacharn

[osprey]

is that the Thomas Williams who married Sarah Boswell in Pembrey Church 28 Aug 1854? His father William Riley Williams, tinman, and her Richard Boswell, bellhanger, witnesses Henry Wilkins and Samuel Lee.

Possible baptism for Sarah in Pembridge, Herefordshire 29 March 1831 daughter of Richard & Catherine Boswell.

Do you know where they went in the States as their names are not uncommon?

[Talacharn]

Hi Osprey, That is the right family and Sarah was the eldest. It would seem they were moving to Wales, as the other children were born in Wales. Her mother was Clevancy/Vansi/Sarah Lee.
I only know from the Oral Scamp list that they emigrated to America. It does not help with them using different names.
The 1851 census has parents and some of the children living in a house in Newtown. Sarah is not one of them and she had not married. Israel (William) is also missing and I suspect a few more were with them working/travelling. The main reference to that family, even in Eric Trudgill’s book, is the census record.