Elusive Mary Ellen born 10 September in Gateshead.

[Tickettyboo]

Re: June Beddow born 25 June 1931 who you think may have been the child of Mary Ellen

I found the tree with this info on, though it says she was born 25 June 1931 if, like me, you are of a nosey nature and want to track HOW the tree owner came to that conclusion, click to see the England & Wales Births Index image that is linked to that birth date.
THAT registration for Beddow with MMN Parr is in Q3 1934. So  'is' the child of Harry Beddow and his second wife and is highly likely to be the redacted entry on the 1939 register that you have. She is either still alive or, as she was born less than 100 years ago, no one has provided a death cert to have the entry opened.

The other source the tree has was a death reg in 2004, and that did give a birth date of 25 June 1931.
Its highly likely that the tree owner has got the wrong parents for the lady who died in 2004, they certainly have the wrong birth reg (and I suspect the wrong death reg though haven't poked around to find out).

Check the 1939 register using the exact birthdate of 25 June 1931 and first name +surname at death on that tree for the lady who died in 2004 is on there, in Northumberland, but she's definitely not the child of Harry Beddow either with Mary Ellen or his second wife.

Bottom line is, no matter where the info comes from, some odd woman on RC (me!) a tree, family 'lore' etc etc, check it out carefully yourself in the available records to see if it is accurate.

Everyone, no matter how helpful or experienced, is capable of taking a wrong turn somewhere along the line.

Boo

[emmadog]

Hi Boo. I have recieved the pdf from register office yesterday (a surprise as it was Saturday). Anyhow the date of birth is exactly the same as baptism record and she was born in Gateshead Workhouse same as my grandad. So your hunch about the Monaghan birth proved tobe correct.
Today I thought lets have a quick look on 1901 census with the name Monaghan and have come up with one record for a Margaret but nothing for Charles. If this is the correct record for Margaret she appears to be a resident of H.M. In prison!!! Nothing surprises me now. One thing about the record is that I cannot read her occupation. Starts with an R but cannot guess at the rest. Not a prostitute as I can read that easily on an above name.
Oh well, just thought I would keep you ip to date. And the £7 was worth every penny.
One million thanks to you Barbara.

[Tickettyboo]

Pleased the birth cert turned out as you wanted.

Charles was living with his Dad at 15 Hillgate, Gateshead in 1901, see reply 24 for the census refs this is the transcript from Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSCY-NQD

Where was the Margaret you found in 1901? If you can give me the reference of where you found the census/ prison/court record there may be something in the newspapers to help to confirm/deny its the right record? To look I'd need some clues as to where she was held / where she had been sentenced.

Boo

[emmadog]

Hi Boo. Sorry I’m not sure what you mean by ref (bit thick!!) but all I put in Anc search was Margaret Monaghan b. 1869.the prison is HM prison Newcastle on tyne, All Saints. The census says she is married and born Newcastle but I thought it might answer why she is missing on census I was looking for earlier. Sorry my mistake with the Charles. I did mean her son Charles b. 1899 who was then named Mallichan or variant. She married Charles Johnson in 1904.
Barbara.

[mckha489]

She is a rag gatherer.

Reference is

Piece:   4787
Folio:   128
Page Number:   9
Household Schedule Number:   1

[emmadog]

Thanks mckha489 for the info. I did wonder about the ref but not sure. I now know and am learning so much from you  friendly rootschatters. As regards to her occupation (if it is actually her) my husband said ragamuffin so he was close!! I’m usually pretty good but just evaded me. Think my eyes are fed up and are just about ready to give up😂😂😂

[Tickettyboo]

I am still veering towards a 'misheard' surname that the registrar made their best shot at it and plumped for Monaghan - rather than Margaret using a different surname when she registered the birth.  If she had her baptised with the surname Mallachin, then she would have given that surname when she registered the birth.

Who registered the birth? Was it Margaret or perhaps someone from the workhouse?
If it was someone from the workhouse, perhaps it was them who had misheard the name?

If Margaret registered the birth and hadn't had the opportunity to learn to read and write (still quite common back then, especially for girls) then she may have had no idea that the surname wasn't right?
What does each column in the register say? (we aren't allowed to post full images but you could post the detail).

Boo

[emmadog]

Hi Boo. I am just looking at both birth certificates, one for Charles Mallachin and the one for Mary Ellen Monaghan. Details as follows

9th June 1899 Union Workhouse. Charles- boy- dash for father- Margaret Mallachin a tobacconists assistant Gateshead- informant Jas Scott Union Workhouse- 28 th June 1899- registrar Thomas Lumsden.

10th September 1901 Union Workhouse- Mary Ellen- blank for fathers details- Margaret Monaghan a factory hand if Gateshead- Jas Scott Madter Union Workhouse Gateshead- 26th September 1901- registrar Thomas Lumsden.

I did not think you could post image.

I have looked at her marriage certificates to Charles Johnson in 1904 and to Thomas Coyne in1906 and both have the cross on them (think that’s to say could not read or write??).

She was brought up living in the closes off RoyalMile in Edinburgh so I think reading and writing was a rarity in those days. I have been to the visitors attraction for the closes and they lived a very harsh life. Really hit the heart strings to think my family lived like they did.

Barbara

[Tickettyboo]

Looking at the two birth register entries, Margaret seems to have been working both before Charles was born and in between the two births (at a tobacconists and then in a factory). So from that its reasonable to conclude she was only resident in the workhouse for short periods before and after the births.

 I've firkled though the page images I have for my twiglets who were baptised at St Joseph's 1890-1910 on the offchance she may be on the same page as one of mine but no luck. All these entries have an address in the register - though at least one has it as 'Workhouse' . They all also have at least one godparent's name - though no guarantee that the godparent was related or even a close friend.

Sadly the LDS family History Centre near us remains closed so I can't go and look at the image for you but I've added this to my list of things to look at for when it does re-open. (May not be till next year)

Boo