McLorinan family burying-ground, Antrim

[aghadowey]

"The family burying-ground" simply means a family plot- since most Methodist Churches probably didn't have a graveyard check local Church of Ireland & Presbyterian graveyards (although there might not be a headstone/legible headstone).

[jnomad]

Thanks, aghadowey. I didn't suppose there would be a separate graveyard for the McLorinan family. But I found it a bid odd that the BNL notice implicitly assumed that anyone who saw it and wanted to go the funeral would know which graveyard (C of I, Presbyterian) the family plot was in. And I wondered if anyone knew the answer to that question.

About John McLorinan being a writing clerk when he married and later a soap chandler: in the 1865 Belfast directory he figures on Mill Street as a chandler, but in 1870 he's chandler and book-keeper. Maybe he wasn't succeeding as a chandler. There's the death of Mary McLorinan on 30 June 1890, in Belfast workhouse, taken there from 55 Mountjoy Street (was the workhouse a substitute for a hospital for poor people?), in the presence of her husband/widower John McLorinan, clerk, of 55 Mountjoy Street.

About one Henry McLorinan being both a farmer and a grocer/shopkeeper: in the 1880 Belfast and Ulster Province directory Henry McLorinan, grocer, is still listed on High Street — five years after the death of the farmer. It looks as if there were at least two with the same name. Perhaps the Simpson connection doesn't belong with "my" Henry, the father-in-law of John McDowell. Martha's father seems to have lived on Castle Street, as did Henry the farmer, but maybe not in the same house. There are also Roman Catholic McLorinans on Castle Street, surely not related.

[aghadowey]

Death in a Workhouse does not mean poverty and it's likely she died in the hospital attached to the Workhouse.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Belfast/

[jnomad]

No one has expressed a view about the profession of Mary McLorinan's father on the certificate of her marriage to John Simpson. I think the first letter could be G. Anyway, the way John Simpson is connected to the death of Martha McLorinan suggests that Mary and Martha were sisters, and Martha's father is described as a shopkeeper. No one has expressed a view about whether a grocer/shopkeeper might also be described, at his death, as a farmer. The names Mary and Martha are indeed suggestive that they were named for the Mackey sisters, but even so I'm inclined to be doubtful that these probable sisters are daughters of Martha McLorinan born Mackey, and to think their father is a different Henry McLorinan.

One more thing: might it be significant that Mary's marriage, in 1847, was in the Church of Ireland? Methodist marriages in Antrim apparently go back to 1836. Would Martha McL, née Mackey, presumably a fervent convert to Methodism with her sister Mary and brother Alexander back in 1805 or thereabouts, have been happy for her daughter to marry in the established church? And wouldn't it have been up to the bride's family where the marriage would be, even if the Simpsons were C of I (as they seem to have been)? Just asking; I would be happy to be instructed about this.

[jonwarrn]

I thought Henry's occupation might also be Farmer, but, having another look, possibly not!
Really it is too indistinct to be sure!

What about the witnesses? One of them looks as though it might be a Johnson, and I can only come up with Bristow as a first name!
Now there was a Bristow Johnson around (could have been several I suppose!) who was in Dublin, and seems to be one of the correspondents in the "Johnson Letters", featuring Henry Johnson, who I think has gone to Canada, Henry's wife Jane in Antrim, and others.
PRONI Reference T3478

Alexander Mackey is in them, writing to Henry in Canada.
And Jane, writing to husband Henry in 1849, says
"Your mother is well and she desires me to remember her to you your Uncle Mackey is well"
Should be some punctuation in there!

But is that witness Bristow Johnson?
Marriage of Bristow Johnson and Frances Peacock in Dublin in 1851
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09411/5409269.pdf

[sam.b]

Is any of this relevant to you ?
Surname(s)   Graveyard   Civil Parish   Graveyard Location   County
McLORINAN   Friar's Bush   Shankill   Belfast   Antrim
Gravestone Inscription   IHS Erected by Henry McLorinanin memory of James McLorinan who departed this life August 19th 1853 aged 24 years Also three infant children Also his beloved wife JAne who departed this life July 18th 1847 aged 70 years Also the aboved Henry McLorinan who departed this life March 1st 1877 aged 83 years
Comment   [Beside Hugh McLorinan's monument] Henry McLorinan was a bricklayer at the corner of 42 Smithfield and West Street Belfast from about 1840 untill 1843 when he opened a delf shop there. In 1852 he began dealing in glass-ware as well and two years later opened additional premises at 33 Smithfield (on the north side). By 1858 he had been joined by one of his sons, and two years later the firm was entitely concentrated in enlarged premises an the corner of the west side of Smithfield and West Street. He appears to have retired by 1865 as Charles McLorinan had taken over the concern and was living at 7 Landscape Terrace, Crumlin Road; two years later he moved to Holywood. By 1870 Charles left the West Street premises, but was still in Smithfield and now living on the Antrim Road. Sometime before 1877 Charles moved the firm to 98 High Street and in the 1890's he became a JP; it appears that about this time he started a legal practice at 87 Donegall Street. In 1897 he sold his china shop to W Crawford & Son. In that year, also, he became LLD and was living on the Limestone Road. The solicitor's firm had become Shiels & McLorinan and in about 1920 moved to 14 Donegall Street. Charles seems to have died in 1930

Surname(s)   Graveyard   Civil Parish   Graveyard Location   County
McLORINAN, WILLIAMS   Friar's Bush   Shankill   Belfast   Antrim
Gravestone Inscription   IHS Erected by Hugh McLorinan, Belfast, in memory of his father Felix McLorinan who died 14th August 1814 aged 46 years Also his daughter Ann who died 18th January 1832 aged 1 year Also his wife Alicia McLorinan who died 29th October 1837 aged 34 years Also his mother-in-law Margaret WILLIAMS who died 12th December 1837 aged 56 years Also his sister-in-law Mary Williams who died 11th July 1838 aged 37 years Also his eldest son Daniel who died 22nd May 1862 aged 34 years Also his brother Daniel who died 30th June 1862 aged 56 years The above named Hugh McLorinan who died 6th December 1882 aged 90 years Mary, pray for him
Comment   [Massive headstone sunnounted by an unusually large neoclassical capstone with urn and cross] It is possible that Hugh McLorinan was a native of Ahoghill, Co Antrim, as his brother Daniel was described in a death notice as having lately lived there. Hugh McLorinan was established as a builder at 46 Institution Place, Belfast, by 1837 if not earlier, although he is not listed in the Belfast directories until 1841. In 1842 he opened a builder's yard at 20 Upper Church Lane, before moving in the late 1840s to 37 Academy Street where he operated as a builder, grocer, spirit dealer and undertaker until about 1851. From then until about 1864, he was at Institution Place only, trading as both a builder and spirit-grocer, and in that year he acquired additional property at nos 61 and 63 Meadow Street. He appears to have left Institution Place between 1865 and 1868 and lived for a few years at 16 Camden Street, off University Road when he was discribed as being a grocer, spirit dealer, architect, builder and valuer, with his business address at Meadow Street. By 1870 he had left Camden Street and moved to 47 Meadow Street. He continued as a wine and spirit merchant, and builder untill his retirement in about 1879 when he went to live at 1 Limestone Road, and the concern was wound up.

[jnomad]

That's fascinating, jonw65. Once again, you make an intervention that changes the whole picture!

Now that I know there was such a person, I can see that the witness is Bristow Johnson. Surely there can't have been a lot of people with that name.

I had not heard of the Henry Johnson letters. From the bit you cite from a letter of Henry's wife, Henry was a nephew of Alexander Mackey, so his mother was Mary Mackey who married William Johnson. You don't say how Bristow Johnson figures in the letters. But the Dublin marriage certificate doesn't say where the groom's father lives or lived, and there was a William Johnson, grocer, on Main Street Antrim in 1852. It looks plausible, pending refutation from the letters, that Bristow Johnson is a brother of Henry.

That means that if Mary McLorinan's father is the McLorinan who married Mary Mackey and fathered the Rev. Thomas McLorinan, Bristow Johnson was her cousin; their mothers were sisters. And that surely makes it likely that she, and by extension her probable sister Martha, belong in that family: sisters of the Rev. Thomas, daughters of Mary Mackey. That gives a nice explanation of why Bristow Johnson is a witness.

I still have a problem about the profession of the father-in-law of John McDowell, in whose presence Henry McLorinan, farmer, the person I thought was John's father-in-law, father of John's wife Elizabeth, died at Castle Street in 1875. Can that Henry McL be the same person as the father of Martha McLorinan, shopkeeper? And what about there still being a Henry McLorinan, grocer, on High Street in 1880?

I'm tempted to think the father-in-law of John McDowell junior, Samuel Johnson, grocer, is another brother. Perhaps he took over his father's grocery.

Thanks for all that, sam.b. But those McLorinans are surely Roman Catholic, whereas the Henry McL I'm interested in at least married a Methodist, and had at least one of his daughters married in the Church of Ireland. I don't think the McLorinans you have introduced are related. Of course if you go back far enough everyone is related to everyone else, but I think any connection in this case is quite distant. I've seen it suggested that the RC McLorinans in Co Antrim were Irish long before the Plantation, whereas the Protestant McLorinans may have been Scottish imports.

[jnomad]

Sorry, I meant the McLorinan who married Martha Mackey.

[jnomad]

And daughters of Martha Mackey.