Final resting places for John and Christina Kerr, Wishaw Cambusnethan

[lanercost]

Thank you for your very kind words Garngad (Shouldn't we be calling you Roystonhill nowadays?  ) but I have made up my mind not to become involved with anything - or anyone - that doesn't directly concern my own posts. The "RootsChat Veteran" who was so rude hasn't signed-in for 2 months now but he has been a member for 11 years.

Hi Lodger, I wrote to you on your Cambusnethan thread about MIs for a couple. I understand from your post here why you have been away, but if I could please ask for your help again, my ancestors were Robert Black and Margaret Dalziel of Cambusnethan. He died 1851-55 and she died before 1841. Would really appreciate anything. Thank you

[garngad]

Yer welcome Lodger/jim keep going for as long as you can........ bytheway it will always be The Garngad (good & bad) no matter how many name changes they who know best make....H.

Thank you for your very kind words Garngad (Shouldn't we be calling you Roystonhill nowadays?  ) but I have made up my mind not to become involved with anything - or anyone - that doesn't directly concern my own posts. The "RootsChat Veteran" who was so rude hasn't signed-in for 2 months now but he has been a member for 11 years.

[Lodger]

Hi Lanercost, there is a headstone for them in the old churchyard but unfortunately, it's only a marker stone with their names and the year it was erected. The inscription reads - "1813 erected by Robert Black and Margaret Dalziel his spouse".
The plot book records for the churchyard only begin at 1875 (but padded-out by some entries in the Day Book of the municipal cemetery from 1860+).
Each plot in the churchyard was divided into 3 sections (or lairs) namely the Centre, the North and the South.
So here are the entries from the Plot Book, the owners, in Victorian times, are recorded as Robert Black and Margaret Dalziel. All dates below are of interment, not death.
In the South -
MUNGO BLACK, aged 75 years. 19th March 1928.
In the Centre -
PETER BLACK, aged 70 years. 9th December 1879.
ELIZABETH BLACK, aged 65 years. 12th September 1883.
UNKNOWN CHRISTIE, no age given (most probably an infant or still birth) 12th march 1884.
MAGGIE BLACK, aged 16 months. 14th February 1882.
WILLIAM BLACK, aged 7 months. 21st October 1895.
In the North -
MARION BLACK, aged 62 years. 17th June 1902.
MARGARET BLACK, aged 76 years. 23rd September 1920.

I found some of Robert and Margaret's children in the cemetery Day Books, the information in these books is better.

SUSAN BLACK, pauper, Wishaw, aged 37 years, unmarried.
Parents - Robert Black & Margaret Dalziel.
Interred in the old churchyard on 17th June 1862.

PETER BLACK, carter, Wishaw, aged 70 years, married.
Parents - Robert Black & Margaret Dalziel.
Interred in the old churchyard on 9th December 1879.

(Peter may have been married to Elizabeth Wylie?)

MARY RUSSELL, Cleland, aged 75 years, widow.
Parents - Robert Black & Margaret Dalziel.
Interred in C322 municipal cemetery on 24th November 1906.

Also in C322 are -
WILLIAM RUSSELL, boilermaker, Cleland, aged 71 years, married.
Parents - Gavin Russell & Jane Brownlie.
Interred 11th November 1895.

LOCKHART BROWNLIE, modeller, Cleland, aged 32 years, married.
Parents - William Brownlie & Isabella Lockhart.
Interred 28th October 1899.

The stone with Robert & Margaret's name is in a very prominent position just underneath the bell tower of the now ruined church, luckily, it is just on the right side of the modern metal fence that was erected to keep the public from going into the unsafe ruins. The bell tower is a classic example of a 17th century Scottish "Birdcage" tower.

[Lodger]

Hi Kerrmain, I went back today and tried to take a better picture of the stone, I discovered why the original picture wasn't very good, the stone is under a large tree.

[Lodger]

A couple more of the Kerr stone, the one with the red dot is the back of the stone. The front faces east, towards the rising sun.

[lanercost]

Hi Lanercost, there is a headstone for them in the old churchyard but unfortunately, it's only a marker stone with their names and the year it was erected. The inscription reads - "1813 erected by Robert Black and Margaret Dalziel his spouse".
The plot book records for the churchyard only begin at 1875 (but padded-out by some entries in the Day Book of the municipal cemetery from 1860+).
Each plot in the churchyard was divided into 3 sections (or lairs) namely the Centre, the North and the South.
So here are the entries from the Plot Book, the owners, in Victorian times, are recorded as Robert Black and Margaret Dalziel. All dates below are of interment, not death.
In the South -
MUNGO BLACK, aged 75 years. 19th March 1928.
In the Centre -
PETER BLACK, aged 70 years. 9th December 1879.
ELIZABETH BLACK, aged 65 years. 12th September 1883.
UNKNOWN CHRISTIE, no age given (most probably an infant or still birth) 12th march 1884.
MAGGIE BLACK, aged 16 months. 14th February 1882.
WILLIAM BLACK, aged 7 months. 21st October 1895.
In the North -
MARION BLACK, aged 62 years. 17th June 1902.
MARGARET BLACK, aged 76 years. 23rd September 1920.

I found some of Robert and Margaret's children in the cemetery Day Books, the information in these books is better.

SUSAN BLACK, pauper, Wishaw, aged 37 years, unmarried.
Parents - Robert Black & Margaret Dalziel.
Interred in the old churchyard on 17th June 1862.

PETER BLACK, carter, Wishaw, aged 70 years, married.
Parents - Robert Black & Margaret Dalziel.
Interred in the old churchyard on 9th December 1879.

(Peter may have been married to Elizabeth Wylie?)

MARY RUSSELL, Cleland, aged 75 years, widow.
Parents - Robert Black & Margaret Dalziel.
Interred in C322 municipal cemetery on 24th November 1906.

Also in C322 are -
WILLIAM RUSSELL, boilermaker, Cleland, aged 71 years, married.
Parents - Gavin Russell & Jane Brownlie.
Interred 11th November 1895.

LOCKHART BROWNLIE, modeller, Cleland, aged 32 years, married.
Parents - William Brownlie & Isabella Lockhart.
Interred 28th October 1899.

The stone with Robert & Margaret's name is in a very prominent position just underneath the bell tower of the now ruined church, luckily, it is just on the right side of the modern metal fence that was erected to keep the public from going into the unsafe ruins. The bell tower is a classic example of a 17th century Scottish "Birdcage" tower.

Hi Lodger, thank you so much for all the info, the extra info and the photos! It's a shame there aren't any dates for Robert and Margaret but good to know where they are buried and some of the family members with them. A lot of info and insight I wouldn't have had without you, I'll have a good look over everything tonight. Appreciate your time and help

[sage]

May I also extend my gratitude to you, Lodger for your kind and generous offer of help to me and so many others on this forum. As so much of my research has been based in the Cambusnethan area over the years, you responded to so many of my queries and helped me knock over many a brick wall.
I hope you come to believe that one rotten apple doesna maketh all rotten and can appreciate that as a volunteer on this forum your assistance is highly valued and a credit to the spirit in which Rootschat was formed in the first place. As a Rootschatter on the other side of the world I thank you for time spent, your local knowledge and willingness to help; even when that meant tramping in your wellies to the Cambusnethan Cemetery!  The knowledge you have imparted over the years is truly GOLD. 
Sage

[Forfarian]

I too would like to say how much you have contributed to this forum, and to congratulate and thank you for sharing your extensive knowledge and for your willingness to go and look at stones and other things on behalf of other people.

As for the member who was rude to you, there's always one. Nil illigitimi carborundum.

[kerrmain]

Hi Lodger,
Thank you so much for the photos that you have taken for me. You have gone to a lot of trouble and I do really appreciate it.  The photos you have taken are better than the old one you have and the inscription is also a little clearer as well.  So well done to you!
Could I trouble you with another question in relation to this headstone.... Since John Kerr created this headstone in memory of his three brothers, this to me may mean that his three brothers are not actually buried at this site and that this memorial was created at some time between 1839 when the last brother died and 1854 when the mother, Mary Braidwood, died. Would this mean that Mary Braidwood would be buried here? I have been unable to find any Parish Death or Burial records for any of the brothers or Mary Braidwood or even his father who was also a John Kerr. Is there any way of knowing the year that this memorial headstone was created?
If you feel that you don't want to get involved with my query any further, I completely understand and I will take this opportunity to thank you for your kind generosity in the help you have already provided to me and I wish you all the very best.