Ancestry dot com is introducing new Terms & Conditions

[Rena]

This is ancestry dot com.

ancestry dot co dot uk must have to abide by the UK DATA PROTECTION ACT.

Basically ,when it was introduced about a couple of decades ago, anything, any data, etc ., (name address, etc)  ON A COMPUTER was not to be sold to a third party.

Up to that time local authorities would sell the information that they collected on annual electoral forms about who and what ages lived at particular addresses.  Once the information was put on computer they were not supposed to be able to sell the information.

Sorry but you are wrong, if you submit your information to a dataset or website that is available to the public the owner of the dataset has the legal authority to sell it.
That is exactly why the Electoral Register is available in two forms the full register which cannot be sold and the open register which may and is sold to whoever wishes to buy it.
Cheers
Guy

Guy, I recognise the latest situation, but I was alluding to earlier years when I had a manufacturing company and was one of the very many recipients of government documentation that fully explained what we could and could not do with the information on our company computers. I read it very closely.   Was there a clause where I could hand over the computerised  names/addresses of clients and suppliers if I chose to sell the firm, etc.? 

At that time ordinary people were finding the disadvantages of this new data protection act.  It meant that wives of husbands who were suffering from PTSD and who contacted the help line could not obtain help. The reason quoted by the voice on the telephone was that according to the Data Protection Act only the PTSD person could ask for help, but as is now commonly known they are the people who think they can help themselves

[susieroe]

Would it stop Ancestry being able to sell photos, tree content, if they were copyrighted before being uploaded to the site? I just looked at this firm:
https://www.protectmywork.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwgb6IBhAREiwAgMYKRnQHt9CI0RBNrY1uyV-pgIsJA0JQHRweELZq7cDOSvEiVG2bgTOm3RoCvwkQAvD_BwE

[Guy Etchells]

Guy, I recognise the latest situation, but I was alluding to earlier years when I had a manufacturing company and was one of the very many recipients of government documentation that fully explained what we could and could not do with the information on our company computers. I read it very closely.   Was there a clause where I could hand over the computerised  names/addresses of clients and suppliers if I chose to sell the firm, etc.?

 

Yes DPA 1998 Schedule 7, 6, (3)

At that time ordinary people were finding the disadvantages of this new data protection act.  It meant that wives of husbands who were suffering from PTSD and who contacted the help line could not obtain help. The reason quoted by the voice on the telephone was that according to the Data Protection Act only the PTSD person could ask for help, but as is now commonly known they are the people who think they can help themselves

It could have been possible under section 17, 3 though that would not automatically apply, it would depend on the decision of the Secretary of State, that sort of thing put people off and instead say it was prohibited by the DPA 1998.
A second problem with the DPA 1998 was that many advisers sent out literature that was more oppressive than the actual legislation.
Cheers
Guy

[Guy Etchells]

Would it stop Ancestry being able to sell photos, tree content, if they were copyrighted before being uploaded to the site? I just looked at this firm:
https://www.protectmywork.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwgb6IBhAREiwAgMYKRnQHt9CI0RBNrY1uyV-pgIsJA0JQHRweELZq7cDOSvEiVG2bgTOm3RoCvwkQAvD_BwE

In the UK all works are copyright of the author as soon as they are put down in a tangible form, the copyright does not need to be registered. Back in the 60s songwriters & poets used to prove copyright existence by posting a letter to themselves containing the lyrics and music of the song they had written. When the postmarked letter arrived it was filed away unopened in case it was needed in a later dispute.
Allowing public access to a work does not put that work in the public domain, that is a different legal process.
Cheers
Guy

[susieroe]

Thanks, Guy. So that would work if the photo were on one's own site, but as it has been reproduced on Ancestry's site does that copy become the copyright property of Ancestry? (Legal stuff does my head in!)

[Rena]

Thanks, Guy. So that would work if the photo were on one's own site, but as it has been reproduced on Ancestry's site does that copy become the copyright property of Ancestry? (Legal stuff does my head in!)

Susie,
People who live in the UK and use the website www.ancestry.co.uk are governed by UK law, which states the owner has copywrite.

The people who do not have say over who owns the images are on the dot com website.

This could lead to other family members possibly, in the future,  having to buy copies of their own family images.

I live in England and am not particularly impressed by large companies that push their interests before the interests of others.  I'm removing all my images and have also started to "prune" my family trees until there isn't a root left on their site.

[arthurk]

Thanks, Guy. So that would work if the photo were on one's own site, but as it has been reproduced on Ancestry's site does that copy become the copyright property of Ancestry? (Legal stuff does my head in!)

Guy may well have more to add, but I think I can partly answer this.

The first post about this on The Legal Genealogist (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/2021/08/04/one-big-change-at-ancestry/) generated a lot of discussion, including this exchange:

xxx on August 4, 2021 at 1:38 pm
.... How does this affect copyrighted images, text, etc. people have attached to their trees?

Judy G. Russell (The Legal Genealogist) on August 4, 2021 at 1:47 pm
.... As for copyright, understand that any copyright owner can license any copyrighted item, and under these TOS uploading the item constitutes a forever license to Ancestry. You still own the copyright, but effectively you give Ancestry permission to use the item forever.

In other words, there's a difference between copyright and permission to use an image etc - which raises an interesting point:

According to Ancestry's T&Cs, you agree that "you have all the necessary legal rights to upload or post your User Provided Content". If you own the copyright, then it's up to you who you permit to use the image etc. But if you don't own the copyright, and are merely using it under licence (ie with permission) from someone else, then depending on the terms of that licence/permission, you might not have had the right to upload it in the first place.

[Guy Etchells]

Thanks, Guy. So that would work if the photo were on one's own site, but as it has been reproduced on Ancestry's site does that copy become the copyright property of Ancestry? (Legal stuff does my head in!)

No that is exactly what copyright protects the copyholder from.

Ancestry would have a licence to use the work but they would not hold the copyright, for to happen the copyright holder would have to assign their copyright to Ancestry. If Ancestry was the copyright holder then they would not have to go to such lengths to stop copyright holders rescinding Ancestry's licence to use the work.

Look at it another way, if you buy a book you then hold a licence to read that book as often as you want, but you are not allowed to reproduce that book.
Cheers
Guy

[KGarrad]

A calm, and precise, blog here:

https://thednageek.com/the-molehill-and-the-mountain/?fbclid=IwAR2OUzVYgj_d9vDrU9xUbiava1VJufqZV_p3080IS7P7NdT-PBqrZ-Be-WE