Fred Outram Hartley 1908-1981

[minniehaha]

I believe this to be the probated will of the maternal grandfather of the three aforementioned children:

https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=19663230&digital=yes

[At the time of the execution of the will only one Webb grandchild had been born and her name is incorrect in the will.]


Minniehaha.

[ankerpep_52]

Minihaha=Thanks for the Probate record=However his name is not Frederick Dudley, he did not have a  sister named Mary Good.  His sisters were Kathleen Eva, and Nancy Allison. Fred was employed in the bank rather than being a Carrying Contractor.  Ha also died This is definitely not the same person, but thank you for trying.  Janet

[mckha489]

I believe this to be the probated will of the maternal grandfather of the three aforementioned children:

Which related to this earlier reply

Janet from your reply #26 wherein you named children*.

If you search here:

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search

You will find all three* WEBB births; a daughter in 1947, another in 1951 and the son in
1952. Mother's maiden name is shown. This ties in with the newspaper marriage notice in reply #29.

Minniehaha.

Added, just to clarify.  Which all relates to the Bruce Anthony Webb who died in 2011 and was not the nephew of Fred Outram Harvey

[minniehaha]

Post deleted.

[minniehaha]

Hi --Bruce Anthony married in 1946, had 3 children- Julia the oldest married in 1968 and had 2 children.  Caroline the middle child was in the States when her dad died in 2011. Andrew the youngest married in 1976 and had 4 children. So the family is still carrying on.     Bruce's mother and I are 1st cousins, 1 x removed      FYI  Janet

Hi Janet,

Can you let us know whether or not you still have these children on your family tree please. I ask because of a comment made earlier.......

"Marriage in England-is the wong person, I don't have the marriage cert but the parents always lived in Christchurch NZ and also his sister Pamela.  I have deleted the england marriage and the children from my records and will have to rethink this family.  Janet"


Minniehaha.

[ankerpep_52]

Hi --Bruce Anthony married in 1946, had 3 children- Julia the oldest married in 1968 and had 2 children.  Caroline the middle child was in the States when her dad died in 2011. Andrew the youngest married in 1976 and had 4 children. So the family is still carrying on.     Bruce's mother and I are 1st cousins, 1 x removed      FYI  Janet

Hi Janet,

Can you let us know whether or not you still have these children on your family tree please. I ask because of a comment made earlier.......

"Marriage in England-is the wong person, I don't have the marriage cert but the parents always lived in Christchurch NZ and also his sister Pamela.  I have deleted the england marriage and the children from my records and will have to rethink this family.  Janet"


Minniehaha.

1942 & 1945- Army records, private in Inf Reinfor (Infantry Reinforcements) address- 110 Aikmans Rd, Merivale, father-
           R H Webb    Service #ww11 256714-
1946-.Bruce Anthony WEBB (school teacher) and Pamela (spinster) are at the Aikman's Road address with their parents

1946-June -marriage to Natalie M Dudley.Gosport Hampshire Eng.******   (WRONG INFORMATION)*******
It is not possible that he married in England and living with parents & sister at 110 Aikmans Rd NZ at the same time.  Some information is really mixed up & I am truly confused. Janet

[minniehaha]

Hi ,

Are the three children you have mentioned above, on your Webb family tree?

Minniehaha.

[mckha489]

This is a very hasty outline of the Fred Outram Hartley family
links to all the details are on the thread.

Frederick George Hartley (died 1918)  married 1891 to  Eva Kempthorne (died 1962) 

They had.
3. Frederick Outram Hartley. b 1908 d 1981 he did not marry and had no children. His will is on Archway.
2. Nancy Allison Hartley b 1898 d 1966   She did not marry and had no children
1. Kathleen Eva Hartley b 1892 d 1961 she married Richard or Rickard Hickman WEBB.

They had Bruce Anthony WEBB born 28 Oct 1921* died 1968. he did not marry and had no children
and Pamela WEBB 1924-2014 who also did not marry and had no children.



It is dinner time, here (well drinks before dinner time  ) I'll do the Other Bruce Anthony family for you later.


* Added - exact date of birth.
on the 29th October this year that birth should show in the online indexes

[mckha489]

The other Bruce Anthony WEBB (b 23 July 1921 - d 30 June 2011).     (see reply #27)

married 1st at Warblington Hampshire to Natalie Mary DUDLEY of Christchurch NZ

Bruce = a Lieutenant on the staff of the senior officer, Royal Naval Establishment, India

they had the three children previously named, all in England

J.M. 1947
C.A.D 1951
A.R.C. 1952


At some point the marriage broke down and Natalie is in NZ by 1958 when she was applying for her NZ citizenship  (either because she was born in Australia, or lost her NZ citizenship by virtue of her marriage to Bruce Anthony Webb I am not sure of the technicalities of that)


This Bruce Anthony remarried somewhere and at some time to “Lidia’ who is named as his wife in the 2011 death notice.
I don’t know when he came to NZ nor who Lidia was.

I think Natalie Mary WEBB nee DUDLEY’s death might possibly be back in England, which makes sense if the children stayed there.

WEBB, NATALIE  MARY     1919 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q2/1993 in STOURBRIDGE  (0661B)  Reg SB2F  Entry Number 300

Natalie’s father was Frederick Richard DUDLEY whose probate record was linked by Minniehaha in post #45

I hope that makes the differences between the two different Bruce Anthony WEBBs clear.

They are two different unrelated men, united by a common name and year of birth


If you still have any doubts whatsoever then I recommend you buying the death register printouts for both men.
NZ death certificates are detailed. especially the 2011 one. The print out can be ordered online and will be emailed to you.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search?Path=querySubmit.m%3fReportName%3dDeathSearch%26recordsPP%3d30