Ancestor possibly using an assumed name?

[paganmogwai]

I have a death cert for James Glen in 1933, again the address matches with the electoral roll entry for James and Sophia Glen.

1932 at 16 Elswick Street, Newcastle.
1933 at 119 Mill Lane

Death
Dec 1933 Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 33
Glen, James   
age 46   

He was buried at Elswick Cemetery, 1 January 1934.
Unfortunately we can't see the burial register on FamilySearch.
We can though see the graves register
Among those buried in the same grave is Lillian Kate, 5 January 1925.

Thanks to Boo for her wonderful Elswick Cemetery graves section finder spreadsheet.

Oh Jon wow (and Boo!) how and where did you find this?  Thank you!

[paganmogwai]

Does the naval record give height and eye colour?

5 ft 3 ¾ in. He might need to have shrunk! Hazel eyes.
Arms were indeed covered in tattoos!
Is he the James Glen born 1887 with a CR10 card in the British merchant seamen records (1918)
They usually have a photo (not of the arms though!)

Baptisms on ancestry of Louis Henry and Hilda Sophia at Bedfont.
Father Henry James in ASC, then Labourer.
What was he up to in Southampton in 1909?

If that is the correct James Glen of the Menes in the Liverpool crew list in 1910, and age and birthplace suggest it ought to be, then his previous ship was the Teutonic. Which was then running from Southampton to New York.
So he could have met Sophia in Southampton.

During 1911 the Teutonic was switched to Liverpool - Montreal, and James Glen joined the crew in September!

Earlier that year he was on the Lackawanna, from 4 January to 13 February.
Discharged at Birkenhead??
Next engagement in June (Cedric to New York)
So he ought to have been at home for the 1911 census? As he apparently is, of course.

Hi Jon, on Elsie's birth cert in 1909 Henry James occupation is given as ships fireman.  Same as James on most other records.  There were a lot of ships firemen of course

I just wonder if they were 2 different men then 1. what happened to Henry? and 2. Why did Sophia revert to using Henry's surname after James' death?    No way of knowing of course but still......

[jonwarrn]

Hi
Sadly, Elswick burial registers only from 1937 on FamilySearch. They do have an index of consecrated burials, featuring James, and it gives the references for both the burial and graves registers. Plus date of burial. If you are registered with FamilySearch (free) and logged in, it is here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-J3D4-WH64

The graves register is here, it's not that brilliant to look at, I'm afraid. 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-4344-6

But nice to know where James and Lillian Kate are buried, and when, and location of grave.
Section O grave 222

[paganmogwai]

Jon thank you so much for that.  It is strangely nice to know their burial place.

[sparrett]

Hi Jon, on Elsie's birth cert in 1909 Henry James occupation is given as ships fireman.  Same as James on most other records.  There were a lot of ships firemen of course

I just wonder if they were 2 different men then 1. what happened to Henry? and 2. Why did Sophia revert to using Henry's surname after James' death?    No way of knowing of course but still......

Because if we assume two men, there was not a marriage to GLEN and HUMPHREY was her legal name.
Sue

ADDING further for your consideration, why would anyone change their details from their original identity so  to appear to be the father of a child born in 1902 (when aged 15.)
If you were to make false identity details, surely you would make it a bit more plausible.

Sue

[paganmogwai]

Hi Jon, on Elsie's birth cert in 1909 Henry James occupation is given as ships fireman.  Same as James on most other records.  There were a lot of ships firemen of course

I just wonder if they were 2 different men then 1. what happened to Henry? and 2. Why did Sophia revert to using Henry's surname after James' death?    No way of knowing of course but still......

Because if we assume two men, there was not a marriage to GLEN and HUMPHREY was her legal name.
Sue

ADDING further for your consideration, why would anyone change their details from their original identity so  to appear to be the father of a child born in 1902 (when aged 15.)
If you were to make false identity details, surely you would make it a bit more plausible.

Sue

Hi Sue, yeah I've searched and searched but not found any marriage between GLEN and HUMPHREY that works time wise.  I agree if you were using false identity details you would presumably try to be more plausible, but of course by the time I first see James GLEN linked to Sophia in 1911, the first child had been dead for 8 years so maybe that didn't factor in the thinking.  The fact that the first child registered to James and Sophia GLEN was named Doris Humphrey GLEN (b.1920) and on the birth cert Sophia gives her details as Sophia GLEN formerly HUMPHREY strikes me as odd.  why would James be willing to have Henry's surname given to his own child even if as a middle name?  Its all so odd.  Thanks.

[sparrett]

I suggest you request one of the helpers here to post  a snip of Henry John HUMPHREY's  signature from his attestation document  (which  has been mentioned, but I cannot see- or I would do it).

I am pretty sure the signature on the 1911 is James GLEN's, own hand not Sophia's.

A comparison of the two sets of writing may help. There are some experienced "eyes" here

Sue

 

[LizzieL]

I suggest you request one of the helpers here to post  a snip of Henry John HUMPHREY's  signature from his attestation document  (which  has been mentioned, but I cannot see- or I would do it).

I am pretty sure the signature on the 1911 is James GLEN's, own hand not Sophia's.

A comparison of the two sets of writing may help. There are some experienced "eyes" here

Sue

 

here it is

[sparrett]

Hi Lizzie,
Well I would say there is almost no similarity between the 1911 and the signature you have kindly posted.

What do you think?

Sue