Author Topic: A houseful of children, but whose are they?  (Read 1131 times)

Offline caro-dee

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A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« on: Monday 21 June 21 21:31 BST (UK) »
Reginald Stroud married Ellen Swyers (sometimes Swyres or Swyre)  in Wimborne, Dorset in Sep 1901.  They were both single.
In 1911 they are living in Bournemouth, had been married 10 years, there were 6 children of the marriage, 5 living, 1 had died.  The 5 living children, Reginald F (b. 1902), Ellen Kate (1903), Gladys (1904) Rosalie (1905) and Arthur (1909) were all living with the parents and all were born in Christchurch.
A search for the births of Stroud/Swyers children at the GRO (initially to find the child who had died) showed only one child, Reginald F, as having a mother named Swyers.   Ellen, Gladys, Rosalie and Arthur Stroud are shown as having their mother’s maiden name as Richmond, as had the child who died, Walter George (b.1907)
In Sep 1939, Reginald and Ellen were living at the same Bournemouth address together with Gladys and Arthur and also with further Stroud children-  Violet (1911),  Dorothy (1920),  Edward (1921) and Winifred (1924).  Of these only Violet’s mother was Swyers, Richmond being the mother of the others.  There are 3 further entries at the address in 1939 whose names are withheld.  These may well be 3 further children found in the birth registers, born 1917, 1918 and 1925 (all from Richmond) as was a final child, Ronald (born and died in 1930).  All the children were born in Christchurch.  I can find no marriage of a Stroud to a Richmond.  Reginald Stroud died in Christchurch in 1943 and Ellen (Swyers) Stroud in Christchurch in 1956.
Ellen Swyers was born in Sept 1882, could she be the mother of all 14 children, born between 1902 and 1930, or only the two, Reginald in 1902 and Violet in 1911, who are registered with her maiden name.  She must have been very tolerant to care for 12 of her husband’s children by another woman. Were they all adopted perhaps? Where was ‘Miss Richmond’ all this time?
Is there a simple explanation that I have completely missed?  Any ideas most welcome!

Parsons-Somerset
Ballam-Dorset
Whinham-Northumberland
Frazier-Middlesex
Atwell-Somerset
Carrington-Norfolk
Harvey-Glos.

Online Neale1961

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 21 June 21 22:01 BST (UK) »
In the 1891 and 1901 census Ellen appears as Ellen Richmond with her parents and siblings. - all with surname Richmond.
I think you might need to look to an earlier generation to work out why the change of surname.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 21 June 21 22:14 BST (UK) »
The only thing I can add is that she was born as Ellen Swyer Dec qtr 1882 & her mmn was Cole

Marriage Dec qtr 1878 Wimborne - Frederic Swyer/Swyre & Mary Ann Cole
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Online heywood

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 21 June 21 22:35 BST (UK) »
Frederick Richmond-parents John and Ellen Richmond
1861 1337/9/14
1871 1983 /24/27

1881 2092/15/24
John and Ellen Swyer and family
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Br1gau

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 21 June 21 22:53 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Do you have the 1901 marriage record image (ancestry) from the Parish Church of Wimborne Minster? 
Reginald Albert Stroud 23yrs, a railway porter of Grange Wimborne, father Mark Stroud, a carter

Ellen Swyers aged 19yrs of Hampreston, father Frederick Swyers, a gardener
Witnesses: Fred Cole & Emily Jane Dacombe

Offline caro-dee

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 June 21 23:19 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for the replies! I am going cross eyed at the moment, need a clearer head for this.
Will come back in the morning and delve further.  So it looks as if Ellen is the mother of all those children after all.
Many thanks Caro.
Parsons-Somerset
Ballam-Dorset
Whinham-Northumberland
Frazier-Middlesex
Atwell-Somerset
Carrington-Norfolk
Harvey-Glos.

Offline Gan Yam

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 21 June 21 23:46 BST (UK) »
Frederick Richmond-parents John and Ellen Richmond
1861 1337/9/14
1871 1983 /24/27

1881 2092/15/24
John and Ellen Swyer and family

It looks like Ellen's grandparents John and Ellen were married in Sept Qtr 1849 as John Swyer and Ellen Lambert
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Br1gau

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 00:05 BST (UK) »
An image of Gan Yam’s marriage find shows the marriage date as 1 July 1849 at Wimborne Minster.

John Swyer’s father was Joseph Swyer, labourer. 

Ellen Lambert’s father was William Lambert, labourer. 

John signed by mark, Ellen in her own hand.

Witnesses: William Lambert & David Butler (his name appears throughout the register, he's probably the Parish Clerk.)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: A houseful of children, but whose are they?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 00:11 BST (UK) »
Mark Stroud aged 80
Burial Date:    5 Sep 1918
Burial Place:    Wimborne-Minster, Dorset, England

1891 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WZW7-4MM
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)