LOUISA JANE MORRIS b. 1876 Bridnorth in Lancaster in 1891

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Plot 208 

Thanks for this.

Lesley

[Lesleyperry]

Looking for the Chorlton, Manchester marriage certificate of:

Thomas SAUNDERS and (Fanny) Louisa MORRIS

The couple appear on the 1901 census with two daughters Eleanor b. 1898 and Gladys b. 1900, Ardwick Manchester.

Thank you for any assistance.

Lesley

[Maiden Stone]

Re: Father's name on the birth certificate

Oh, I didn't know that the unmarried dad had to agree to it (his (father's name) on the birth certificate).  I guess the mom's didn't realize how important it was (and she could have encouraged dad to list his name).

Back then the father was maybe not around so much at the birth itself (midwives). 

Although the dad's often seem to register the birth of their children and maybe that explains why my great-granddad's name appears on one of his daughter's birth certificates 1897 before his marriage 1898. 

(Wasn't sure if it was a government rule (or something) - not to put the father's name for illegitimate children - again stigma related.

Law on including name of father of an illegitimate child on a birth certificate in England changed in 1874. (Registration of Births and Deaths Amendment Act 1874; Clause 7) Until then an unmarried mother could name any man as the father, even without his knowledge or permission. Some women put the name of the real father. Other women named a male relative or made up a name to hide the fact a child was illegitimate. A few women gave the name of a famous man as the father. After the law change, an unmarried father had to be present at the birth registration. Reason for the change was to improve accuracy of information on a birth certificate.
A father of an illegitimate child was liable to be pursued for maintenance. The responsibility was removed by the Poor Law Act 1834 but reinstated in the Poor Law Amendment Act 1844 and the Bastardy Act 1845. Other relevant changes were Poor Law Amendment Act 1868 and Bastardy Laws Amendment Act 1873.
Also changes to divorce laws and custody and care of children in second half of 19th century.
"History of child support in the U.K."
www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/information_and_explanation/world/history_uk.htm
 

[wilcoxon]

Ive looked at Ancestry , Scotland's People and Irish indexes and found nothing,  even searching for first names only.
Perhaps Thomas had another name

Unless Fanny Louisa was married before,  a widow and had another surname,  but that's unlikely.

Why did she wait to marry George, had Thomas deserted her, or did she wait until she knew he had died.
Why were the elder children in the home.

The birth certificate of Thomas would give some details as to where she was and an occupation of the father. 

I found a possible Thomas Saunders born in Bath and will try to follow him up.

Perhaps you could start a fresh post with a marriage help title with a link to this one .

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Birth Certificates - unmarried father's name

Got it!  Unmarried father's had to register the birth after 1874.  That is helpful.  Thank you, Lesley 

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Thomas SAUNDERS, b. 1874 c. Bath

Maybe Thomas SAUNDERS and (Fanny) Louisa MORRIS b. 1876 Bridnorth, in Chorlton by 1891, children by 1898 did not get married.  It's a distinct possibility.

Although, she did have SAUNDERS, widow, associated with her second marriage in 1913 to George EDWARDS (see earlier and below in the thread).

By 1874 the child's father had to be listed on the birth certificate (even if illegitimate), hence the children's names (as I just learned from this thread).

Yes, new thread to pursue that one is appropriate.

Thanks again,

Lesley

[Lesleyperry]

What about this , just need to find the Morris Saunders marriage

marriage at St Aiden  Bradford Lancashire. 14 August 1913
Fanny Louisa Saunders widow 36  father Thomas Morris gardener.
George Edwards 37 bachelor father Abraham Edwards Labourer.
 both residing at 8 Ashworth Street.
witnesses Peter and Mary Houlton.

Second marriage would suggest a first marriage (certificate) between Thomas SAUNDERS and (Fanny) Louisa MORRIS.  Yes, the names can be misspelt and there can be inconsistency with first and second names and which ones they use.

Thomas SAUNDERS/Fanny Louisa MORRIS marriage registration should be between 1895 and 1910 at the latest in the the Chorlton, Manchester vicinity.

Thomas named his son Thomas so I think he would be consistent with his first name.

Thanks,

Lesley

[wilcoxon]

There was one good match for a birth that year, but he died soon after.

1901 Ardwick Manchester
Thomas Saunders    23  b Bath  b c 1878
Louisa Saunders    23 b Bewdley Staffs
Eleanor Saunders    3  Manchester
Gladys Saunders    1

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Thomas SAUNDERS b. 1873 c. Bath

Yes, I see Thomas was born in Bath on the 1901 (rechecked). I hadn't started to focus on him yet. Eventually, I will need to find both Thomas's  birth and death registration (1907 and 1911) if possible. 

I'm helping my brother with this, so maybe he'll make some progress himself.  I did a lot of research earlier on and we're now trying to finally pull the pieces together.

I did start a new thread for the marriage certificate Thomas MORRIS/(Fanny) Louisa MORRIS for around the turn-of-the-last-century. 

Second marriage suggests there was a first marriage, but we'll see.

Thanks,

Lesley