LOUISA JANE MORRIS b. 1876 Bridnorth in Lancaster in 1891

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Styal Cottages

You're right - it was just a thought about the two girls working there (better not I think).  Thanks for the school information.  Lesley

[lancsann]

My goodness, this is getting complicated.
1911 8 Ashworth Street Ardwick.  Same address as marriage in 1913
George Edwards    34 b Shrewsbury ?
Louisa Edwards    34 b Bridgenorth Salop
Charles Edwards    11 b Ardwick
Thomas Saunders    8 b Arwick

GRO index has a Thomas Saunders birth 1904 Mar qtr Chorlton mmn Morris.

Charles has been mistranscribed - the image was changed from ? and school to age 1 and occupation of school crossed out He is in the GRO index born 1910 with mmn of Morris so Louisa's & George's son. They pretended they had been married 3 years

[wilcoxon]

Yes, I spotted that after, I wonder what happened to Thomas Saunders,  they waited till 1913 to marry.
Could he have died and made the way clear.
As yet there's no marriage that fits.

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Thomas SAUNDERS m. (Fanny) Louisa MORRIS mmn DAYUS (1913 2nd m. George EDWARDS) b. 1876 Bridnorth (Wolverhampton), servant in Chorlton 1891

Thomas SAUNDERS appears on the 1901 census (thread).  A child's birth/death in 1907 suggests to me that Thomas died sometime between 1907 and 1911. Maybe two girls put in in Styal around then too.

Just saw your other post about Thomas and Florence - will look at it - thanks so much - Lesley.

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Charles EDWARDS b. 1910 - got it - age 1 (not 11, 1911) therefore George EDWARDS and Louisa's son pre-marriage in 1913

Yes, thanks for age discrepancy clarification.  Couldn't quite figure out where Charles came from (parents).

 Louisa EDWARDS b. 1876 (SAUNDERS widow, nee MORRIS mmn DAYUS) would still have been living w/ 1st husband Thomas SAUNDERS w/their son - the Thomas SAUNDERS age 8 (1911).

George EDWARDS was a bachelor when he got married in 1913 to Louisa.  So I now see that little Charles EDWARDS got his father's name even though the couple weren't married yet (maybe not so bad - still the little guy's name). 

Traditionally we get our father's name at birth.  At that time, if the parents weren't married, the father's name didn't seem to appear on the birth certificate at all (making family research even harder).  Lot of stigma with illegitimacy.

So we've got two children in the orphanage (Styal) and more children being born. 

I've seen a lot of marriages, at that time, that took place after the couple had been together for a while - maybe hard to find a moment for the ceremony with the long hours working.

Catching up on these brilliant posts! 

Thanks!

Lesley

[lancsann]

You are right that no father’s name make family history more difficult, especially when the child concerned is then adopted. However he can be named if he is present at the registration and agrees.

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Father's name on the birth certificate

Oh, I didn't know that the unmarried dad had to agree to it (his (father's name) on the birth certificate).  I guess the mom's didn't realize how important it was (and she could have encouraged dad to list his name).

Back then the father was maybe not around so much at the birth itself (midwives). 

Although the dad's often seem to register the birth of their children and maybe that explains why my great-granddad's name appears on one of his daughter's birth certificates 1897 before his marriage 1898. 

(Wasn't sure if it was a government rule (or something) - not to put the father's name for illegitimate children - again stigma related.

Anyway, nowadays it is very much encouraged for the dad to get his name listed.

Thanks!

Lesley

[Lesleyperry]

Re: Thomas SAUNDERS 1903-1966 Ardwick, Manchester Hod Carrier (Heavy)

- - son of: Thomas SAUNDERS m. (Fanny) Louisa SAUNDERS b. 1876 (MORRIS, mmn DAYUS, George EDWARDS 2nd husband 1913, 8 Ashworth Street, Manchester 1911) - -

Thank you for bringing Louisa's son up-to-date.  May help with identification (via my mum who is the same generation as this Thomas SAUNDERS b. 1939.

Thomas SAUNDERS (1903-1966) = Florence, nee Ryder (1900-1980)
Son: Thomas SAUNDERS 1939-2002

@ 3 Ashworth Street, Manchester.


I hope Thomas SAUNDERS'S, b. 1903 sisters: Helen SAUNDERS b. 1898, Chorlton, Manchester and Gladys SAUNDERS, Chorlton, b.1900 made it up to the late 20th century also (and Charles EDWARDS b. 1910 Ardwick Manchester).


Mom (of Thomas, Helen, Glaydys and of Charles EDWARDS) Louisa EDWARDS, prev. SAUNDERS, nee MORRIS b. 1876 may be the sister of my ggran Alice (E.) ELLIS b. 1874 (1901) Wolverhampton - working on 1891 census confirmation.

Thanks again! 

Lesley

[wilcoxon]

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/140810241/thomas-saunders

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/138916516/florence-saunders


Both in the  same plot. 208.