Henry and Sarah Harris - parents to Susan Phillis Harris 1807-1879

[LaLisa]

I am looking for the parents of Susan.
I am doing pretty well on Susan herself who is my direct ancestor.
However when it comes to her parents I am drawing a blank. There are so many Henry and Sarah's in those area's at the time - I can't link them to Susan.

I think I have exhausted all I can do on Ancestry.com and findmypast. - just wondering what other resources are out there to focus down on the areas of Bermondsey and Westminster and try to find them. I have tested out lots of hypotheses with various Sarah's and can not find a connection.
It is so annoying that wedding certificates give so little information once you get back to the early 1800's!

All I do know is that Henry died before Susan's second marriage in 1844. And that he was a "plater"
I do wonder if he was mates with Susans first husband who was a copper plater colourist/Engraver/Artist on various different documents.

I also wonder if they had Jewish or German connections since those names can be either and there were many German's in that area at the time.

In case it helps this is my info on Susan:

Susan Phillis Harris
1807–1879
BIRTH 26 MAY 1807 • Tower hamlets, Middlesex, England
DEATH APR 1879 • St Saviour Southwark, London


She was married twice firstly to William Rycroft (died 1838)
And then to Henry Colvin - shoemaker (died 1848)
She had 7 kids (5 first marriage, 2 second marriage - youngest Sarah died aged 6 not long after father)
She is a widow called Susan Rycroft in Beckford Row, St Mary Newington in the 1841 Census of independent means
In the 1851 she is again a widow this time Sarah Colvin in Pages Walk, Bermondsey and is a bootbinder for the Leather market - her daughter and son are also boot binder and shoemaker respectively.
by the 1861 census she is working at a charwoman in Bermondsey
In 1871 I think she is working as a nurse in the city (Susan Colvin) - age slightly wrong

[LaLisa]

I meant to add that some of the marriages and baptisms seemed to take place in Westminster.
Susan is baptised at St Martin in the fields in 1909
William and Susan are married in St Clement Danes, Westminster
And there first two children are baptised there.
Then they seem to move to Newington, Surrey (just south of the River)
next children are baptised at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
Henry Colvin and Susan marry at St mary's, Lambeth

So perhaps I should look for Henry and Sarah in Westminster near St Martin in the fields?

[MonicaL]

Have you tried to expand Susan's family to see what siblings, if any, there were?

There are four baptisms which caught my eye at St Lukes, Berwick Street, Westminster. Four siblings were baptised on the same day, 8 March 1846. Parents were Henry and Sarah Harris, father Henry is showing as 'now deceased' :

Mary Ann b. 11 Aug 1818
Thomas b. 22 Jun 1820
Emma b. 7 April 1822
Jane Sarah b. 5 March 1825 (or 8?)

The address given for them is 33 Little Windmill St.

Monica

[LaLisa]

Thanks so much for your reply.

Actually that is exactly what I am now doing and I have struck some gold!

last night I went through every possible Sarah Harris in the 1941 census.
And I found Sarah Harris living with a son Henry and a daughter Sarah Wynne and her Husband Edwin Wynne and their kids. I have managed to track down some of both Henry jnr and Sarah jnr history.
They all lived in Newington and the sister moved to Bermondsey and around the same time as her sister. She also baptised two of her children at St Martin's in the fields (both on the same day - I bet it was cheaper to do a two for one  ).

So I am feeling like I have a new good angle to explore. Hopefully with more information I can narrow down the set of Henry and Sarah Seniors to look at!

Feels like real sleuthing at this point. I still think there must be some strong connection with Westminster. Perhaps Henry or Sarah seniors parents?

I will check out the Windmill records - because imagine there could indeed be more kids.

Thanks!

[LaLisa]

I've checked out the Windmill street Harris's

It seems that this was a record gathered for a new Parish (if you go back a few pages you can see this). And it is clear that other families have done the same - lots of multiple entries for different families.
Most of the Harris's you mention above were actually baptised in Fareham, Hampshire.
I think there was a Harris family connection to Fareham because I have found other Harris's also baptised at St Peters and St Pauls, Fareham
So I assume that is where this Henry Harris was buried.
Still investigating.
All of the stuff I have found is up on ancestary.com and it is public

[LaLisa]

The record below the Harris family was also entered the same time.
This is for a Michael Spencer child of Thomas and Emma - this is Emma Harris (mentioned a few rows up) married name - and she married Thomas.
Sadly I can't find any other record for Michael Spencer in the census etc.

[LaLisa]

Ahh I just found Michael Spencer he died when he was 3

[LaLisa]

As an update to this.
I found that the family both Harris and Rycroft all moved to Walworth in the early 1830's.
Henry Harris died on Camden Street in 1832.
His daughter Sarah Harris married Edward Wynne a compositor there.
William Rycroft also died on Camden Street in 1838. I am awaiting his death certificate.
His father Richard Rycroft had died on Belgrave St in 1836 (couple of streets away).
They are both buried in St Peter Walworth.

Interestingly William Rycroft was a Print Colourer/Artist. And I discovered that there were a good number of other print colourers living in Trafalgar street and the surrounding streets. In fact when William Rycroft died his wife Susan also moved to Trafalgar street.

Gabriel Bayfield lived at 9 Trafalgar Street (in fact opposite to where Susan moved to) at that time. He was a famous print colourist and had a large team working from  him largely from home. Sometimes whole families were involved - they did the hand coloured prints for Gould and later Darwin"s prints from the Beagle.

I have tracked down about twenty families living around those streets who are registered as print colourers. Often on baptism records and on the census they also refer to themselves as Artists (as Bayfield does himself). When you look at the prints you can see why - they really are beautiful.

In case anyone is interested the other names are: William Webb and all his children, Henry Foley, James Ayton, Joseph Cleere, William Matthew Hart and son William Matthew Hart, William and James Garrad, Charles Chittey and son Charles William Chittey, William Rycroft, John Triptree, Gabriel Bayfield and children Gabriel - later an Independent minister, Thomas - later an independent minister, Mary ann and Maria,

There are also lots of compositors and copper plate printers on these streets.

One of the Compositors is Edward Wynne brother in law to William Rycroft - he lives on Portland street and George street very close to Bayfield.

Thanks all

[LaLisa]

Through DNA I have managed to find one other sibling for Susan - Mary. There is a group of 5 DNA matches that all match each other that relate to Susan, Sarah and  Mary. So it is pretty conclusive.   Mary Harris b1801 married George Langley in St Pancras. Sadly this family were in and out of the workhouse. George was a tailor. He died in St Olave's Bemondsey. I have his death certificate.

I also may have linked via DNA to a mother's maiden name for Susan's mother Sarah. I think she was a Sarah Chambers. I have DNA matches to a sister Jane Chambers. But I am seeking further evidence. If so their father was a Nathanial Chambers, a farmer in Camberwell.

I also may have traced Henry Harris back to his fathers family to Bilisington, Kent on the Romney Marshes. I have have 5 DNA matches to this family across my mother and uncle.

So I am close to solving this one.