Author Topic: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon  (Read 10026 times)

Offline greasey

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 04 July 21 09:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Jon,

thanks for clarifying this.  I thought I am descended from the Margaret Kingdon born in 1754 in North Molton, unless this is another Margaret? 
Do you have any information on my Passmore ancestors before Philip Passmore 1672-1743?  His father was Richard Passmore born in 1652 and his wife Sarah.  I cannot find a marriage for them, unless there was disruption due to the civil war/Commonwealth?  Much research is needed.

Offline Dalet

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 04 July 21 09:50 BST (UK) »
According to  his baptismal record. Philip Passmore's (bap 1672) parents were Richard Passmore and Margery.

A marriage for Richard Passmore and Margery Lechedon is registered on 3rd June 1672 at NM.

This Richard Passmore bapt 1652 is the son of Richard Passmore and Sara(h) unknown.

There is a baptism for a Richard Passmore in 1616, the son of Henry Passmore. He appears the best candidate for the father of Richard the younger.

The baptismal records for the other children of Henry Passmore record the mother as Jackett, Facate or Faccett. (where it is actually lised on the record).

I hope this helps, Dale
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Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 04 July 21 13:07 BST (UK) »
thanks for clarifying this.  I thought I am descended from the Margaret Kingdon born in 1754 in North Molton, unless this is another Margaret? 

The Margaret Kingdon baptised in 1754 as daughter of William and Elizabeth does look like it fits from a naming perspective as Philip and Margaret Pasmore who married in 1770 named a son William in 1774 and a daughter Elizabeth in 1777.

However Margaret's death age of 46 in 1790 does not agree with this 1754 baptism. I wondered if possibly Margaret might have been baptised years later, but the parents William Kingdon and Elizabeth Tapp married in 1749 and apparently had children baptised in 1749, 1751, 1754, 1756, 1759 etc. and so the 1754 Margaret was evidently baptised around her birth.

The child baptised in 1756 was called Michael and Philip and Margaret Pasmore had sons baptised in 1783 and 1785 called Michael. So maybe this is why she called their sons Michael after her brother?

However despite all the above, there is still the issue that the age at burial in 1790 is 10 years out. Certainly I have listed above the fact that Elizabeth Slader|Pasmore was buried aged 84 in 1860, but that newspaper article stated she was 94, so ages could be out.

For me to be more certain i would have to check the other Margaret Kingdons in the area. We must always keep in mind that people moved about and we can't just reply on people with the same names in the parish being our ancestors.

Look for example at my ancestors Philip Pasmore who started this whole North Molton search in the first place and we know he was born in 1747 in North Molton and died in 1802 in Penryn, Cornwall 100 miles away.

I did a quick search for Kingdons in North Molton and came up with this record as an example:

North Devon Record Office
Reference:    1786-4/3/46
Description:  Settlement examination of Mary Kingdon, now resident N Molton - born in Bratton Fleming - lived with her parents at the parish Mill - age 13, apprenticed to William Bray of N Molton, as a weaver - served 4 years - has since lived in N Molton 
     
So here is a Kingdon who moved into North Molton as an example.

I don't know if there are any old Pasmore gravestones in the graveyard at North Molton which might name Philip 1735-1804 and his wives which may list an age of death for Margaret. Certainly I know that there is a gravestone of Philip Pasmore born in 1772 and died 1818 and his widow. Maybe there are other Pasmore graves.

I would do some more digging around before being sure that the Margaret Kingdon baptised in 1754 is the one who married in 1770. I would suspect that a widower with young children would have chosen an older stepmother than a 16 year old to be honest. Also, although females could marry at 12 and males at 14, usually at this time it was in the twenties.

I would like to know your thoughts on this.

Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #57 on: Sunday 04 July 21 14:13 BST (UK) »
According to  his baptismal record. Philip Passmore's (bap 1672) parents were Richard Passmore and Margery.

A marriage for Richard Passmore and Margery Lechedon is registered on 3rd June 1672 at NM.

This Richard Passmore bapt 1652 is the son of Richard Passmore and Sara(h) unknown.

There is a baptism for a Richard Passmore in 1616, the son of Henry Passmore. He appears the best candidate for the father of Richard the younger.

The baptismal records for the other children of Henry Passmore record the mother as Jackett, Facate or Faccett. (where it is actually lised on the record).

I hope this helps, Dale

Thanks, Dale. Yes I have seen all this information but to be honest I am not convinced by the identification of the Philip Pasmore who married Margaret Lechedon in 1672 as the one baptised in 1652.

Her unusual name makes it much more certain she was baptised in North Molton as Margerie Leickerdon on 3 September 1643, daughter of Phillip and Katherine. This is presumably where the name Philip Pasmore comes from in this line of Pasmores, as the eldest son of Richard and Margery Pasmore was named Philip in 1672/3.   

For Philip to be the one baptised in 1652, he would have made him only 19 years old at his marriage in 1672 and also 9 years younger than his wife. I am not convinced.

Certainly the fact the marriage took place on 3 June 1672 and their first child was baptised on 16 February 1673 (1672 in Old Style dating) suggests they did not marry because she was pregnant and the child was probably born at 8 and a half months.

Why therefore would a 19 year old man have married so young? It seems unlikely to me and so without further evidence it feels like we are just making the identifications fit with the names in the parish registers. And as I said above, people could have moved into an area or not have been recorded in the parish registers.

For me at the moment, the parentage of the Philip Passmore who married in 1672 is unproven.


Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 04 July 21 14:18 BST (UK) »
1. Bapt 16 Feb 1672 North Molton s/o Richard & Mary

This Philip Pasmore's marriage is:

A. 5 May 1700 North Molton to Jone Abbot

They had the following children: Richard 1700, Philip 1702, Joan 1703, John 1706, Robert 1708, Mary 1711 & Henry 1714.

He was the father of the Philip Pasmore I have numbered 2 and was the grandfather of the Philip Pasmores I have numbered 3, 4, 5 and 6.

He is presumably the Philip Passmore buried at North Molton on 5 September 1743.

The Devon will index has a Philip Pasmore of North Molton, but Devon wills were detroyed in WWII.

His baptism year as 1672 is actually the Old Style date. This would be 1673 in New Style and so should be recorded as 1672/3.

Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #59 on: Sunday 04 July 21 16:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Jon,

I am indeed descended from Philip Passmore 1672-1743.  I am descended from his son Philip 1702-1759.  My descent is then from his son Philip Passmore 1735-1804, whom married 3 times.  His first wife as a Joan Passmore from Cutcombe Somerset, but I can find no evidence that they were related.  They had 2 children John and Christian.  However Joan died in 1769 and Philip married Margaret Kingdon 1754-1790, my ancestor.  She would have been only 15/16 when Philip married her, which would be frowned upon these days, but was perfectly legal in those days.  They had 11 children, but at least 5 or more died in infancy.  I am descended from their son Richard Passmore 1775-1841.  He was a woolcomber, later a chandler and a schoolmaster when he died in 184, just before the census was taken.  His brother Philip 1772-1818 was parish clerk for 9 years, and his brother William 1774-1841 was also a woolcomber, parish clerk and a wool stapler/dealer on the 1841 census.  Their other brother Robert born 1782 was a woolcomber and later was a customs and excise officer.  He left a will proved in 1827 proving this and left money to his siblings as he never married.  He did have an illegitimate child with a Grace Tapp in 1803.  When their father Philip died in 1804, I find it puzzling why he doesn't include his sons William and Richard in his will.  They were both alive.  From Richard Passmore I am descended from his last child and son Richard 1813-1872 a shoemaker.  Then I am descended from his eldest son John Passmore 1838-1903 a miller and then an iron miner in North Riding of Yorkshire, where I still live.  I am actually a Passmore, and my real name is Lee Passmore.  This makes us very distant cousins.  I am struggling to find marriages and documents for Philip Passmore 1672-1743 father Richard and cannot go back any further than Henry Passmore born before 1600.  We are not descended from Mighell (or Michael) Passmore 1546-1607.  Our line is another line from North Molton that may not be connected to him.   :)
P.S. my tree is on Ancestry.co.uk called Passmore Family Tree, with the username lpassmore2.  It is public too.

Hi Lee, obviously we were chatting in the other Passmore thread so I have copied that message here which I hope is OK.

I have seen that the Philip Passmore baptised in 1772 was also a schoolmaster as was the Philip Pasmore baptised in 1797 as son of William Passmore and Mary Stoneman.

I assume the William who married Mary Stoneman is your William baptised in 1774 and online trees including yours show this,

I am interested in this as Philip Pasmore 1797-1843 and his third cousin and my ancestor John Pasmore 1809-1879 (and probably his father too) were both in Limehouse, Middlesex, together in at least 1831 to 1832. I wonder if this is just coincidence? We are unlikely to ever know!

My grandpa's grandmother was born a Pasmore (the spelling in my line) and I am particularly interested in her as she emigrated to Australia in the 1880s and died in Melbourne in 1897. I visited her grave there and feel like I have followed her life from one side of the world to the other and back again.

I have looked at our relationship and even though from the age of your grandparents I suspect we are of a similar age (I am a late 1970s child), I am actually of the Pasmore/Passmore generation above you. We are 8th cousins once removed.

All for now,
Jon

Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #60 on: Sunday 04 July 21 17:51 BST (UK) »
PASSMORES IN THE DEVON WILL INDEX

I have been looking at the Passmore wills on the Devon Will Index listed here:

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/DevonWillsProject/DWP-Pa

As the Devon wills were destroyed in a fire in WWII, the majority are lost and all we have is a list entry from the index that was put together before the destruction.

I have extracted the Passmore wills for North Molton and South Molton and also sorted them by first name and by date.

I have shortened the entries for the purpose of posting, but the court the will was proved at and the full details can be found at the above link.

I thought this might be useful to anyone who comes across this thread in future.

Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #61 on: Sunday 04 July 21 17:52 BST (UK) »
NORTH MOLTON PASMORE/PASSMORE WILLS (BY FIRST NAME)

Surname    First Name(s)    Year    Type of Document    Form of Document   

Pasmore    Anstice        1634    W    le   
Passmore    Edmund        1823    W    le   
Passmore    Edmund        1823    W    co   
Pasmore    Elizabeth    widow    1584    W?    le   
Pasmore    Elizabeth        1710    A    le   
Passmore    Grace            1826    A    le    .   
Passmore    Grace             1826    A    ab    admon to Thomas Passmore, son
Passmore    Hugh            1841    W    le   
Pasmore    Joan            1628    [W?]    le   
Pasmore    Joan            1668    A    le   
Pasmore    Joan            1758    W    le   
Pasmore    John            1576    W?    le       
Pasmoore    John    yeoman    1629    W    tr   
Pasmoore    John    yeoman    1629    W    co   
Pasmoore    John    yeoman    1629    W    co   
Pasmoore    John    husbandman    1636    W    tr   
Pasmore    John Heasill and Prer.? 1636    [W?]    le   
Pasmore    John    Heasill,     1636    W    co   
Pasmore    John            1690    W    le   
Passmore    John            1781    A    le   
Pasmore    John            1784    A    le   
Passmore    John            1787    A    le   
Passmore    John     yeoman    1799    W    ab   
Passmore    John            1818    W    le   
Passmore    John            1818    W    co   
Passmore    Jonathan        1772    W    le   
Pasemore    Michaell        1607    W    tr   
Pasmore    Michaell        1607    W    co   
Pasmore    Michaell        1607    W    co   
Passmore    Michael        1807    W    le   
Passmore    Michael yeoman    1807    W    ab   
Pasmore    Nicholas        1717    A    le   
Passmore    Nicholas        1807    W    le   
Pasmore    Phillip            1616    [W?]    le   
Pasmore    Phillip            1743    W    le   
Pasmore    Phillip            1759    W    le   
Pasmore    Phillip            1762    W    le   
Passmore    Philip            1804    W    le   
Passmore    Philip    woolcomber    1804    W    ab   
Passmore    Philip            1822    W    le   
Passmore    Philip            1822    W    co   
Passmore    Richard        1777    W    le   
Passmore    Robert            1827    W    le   
Passmore    Robert            1827    W    co   
Passmore    Samuel    farmer    1875    W    co   
Pasmore    William        1702    W    le   
Pasmore    William        1759    W    le   
Passmore    William        1833    W    le   
Passmore    William        1842    W    le   
Passmore    William        1842    W    co   

Type of Document: 'W' - Will, 'A' - Administration, 'I' - Inventory, 'O' - Other

Form of Document: 'or' - Original, 'co' - Copy, 'ab' - Abstract or Extract, 'tr' - Transcript, 'le' - List Entry

Offline jonwicken

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Re: Passmore or Pasmore family of North Molton, Devon
« Reply #62 on: Sunday 04 July 21 17:53 BST (UK) »
NORTH MOLTON PASMORE/PASSMORE WILLS (BY DATE)

Surname    First Name(s)    Year    Type    Form   

Pasmore    John            1576    W?    le   
Pasmore    Elizabeth     widow    1584    W?    le   
Pasemore    Michaell        1607    W    tr   
Pasmore    Michaell        1607    W    co   
Pasmore    Michaell        1607    W    co   
Pasmore    Phillip            1616    [W?]    le
Pasmore    Joan            1628    [W?]    le   
Pasmoore    John    yeoman    1629    W    tr   
Pasmoore    John    yeoman    1629    W    co   
Pasmoore    John    yeoman    1629    W    co   
Pasmore    Anstice        1634    W    le
Pasmoore    John    husbandman    1636    W    tr   
Pasmore    John Heasill and Prer.? 1636    [W?]    le   
Pasmore    John    Heasill,     1636    W    co   
Pasmore    Joan            1668    A    le   
Pasmore    John            1690    W    le   
Pasmore    William        1702    W    le   
Pasmore    Elizabeth        1710    A    le
Pasmore    Nicholas        1717    A    le       
Pasmore    Phillip            1743    W    le   
Pasmore    Joan            1758    W    le
Pasmore    Phillip            1759    W    le
Pasmore    William        1759    W    le       
Pasmore    Phillip            1762    W    le       
Passmore    Jonathan        1772    W    le
Passmore    Richard        1777    W    le       
Passmore    John            1781    A    le   
Pasmore    John            1784    A    le   
Passmore    John            1787    A    le   
Passmore    John     yeoman    1799    W    ab   
Passmore    Philip            1804    W    le   
Passmore    Philip    woolcomber    1804    W    ab   
Passmore    Michael        1807    W    le   
Passmore    Michael yeoman    1807    W    ab   
Passmore    Nicholas        1807    W    le
Passmore    John            1818    W    le   
Passmore    John            1818    W    co   
Passmore    Philip            1822    W    le   
Passmore    Philip            1822    W    co   
Passmore    Edmund        1823    W    le   
Passmore    Edmund        1823    W    co   
Passmore    Grace            1826    A    le    .   
Passmore    Grace             1826    A    ab    admon to Thomas Passmore, son
Passmore    Robert            1827    W    le   
Passmore    Robert            1827    W    co   
Passmore    William        1833    W    le
Passmore    Hugh            1841    W    le       
Passmore    William        1842    W    le   
Passmore    William        1842    W    co   
Passmore    Samuel    farmer    1875    W    co   

Type of Document: 'W' - Will, 'A' - Administration, 'I' - Inventory, 'O' - Other

Form of Document: 'or' - Original, 'co' - Copy, 'ab' - Abstract or Extract, 'tr' - Transcript, 'le' - List Entry