The Adelaide Brickwall - possibly Black Patch Gypsy

[osprey]

think I'd take that person's research with a large pinch of salt. It has Sarah giving birth when she's 53.

I'd given you the marriage earlier

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XXL4-WTL

Woodfine appears on some records as Woodbine.

Death reg
Woodbine Smith 102 march qtr 1867 Aston vol 6d pg 183 burial in Witton Cemetery Birmingham

1861 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M72V-G33
with this Smith family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M72V-G38

Woodbine & Sarah had a son Frederick baptised 31 Dec 1816, born 28 Dec Greens Norton, Warwickshire but that is decidedly out from age given on census.

[MonicaL]

A different search. I thought to check to see whether Caroline Smith/Lovell was still alive in 1911 following husband John's death in 1909. I think this might be her here www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7B6-2BL I am sure I have seen somewhere a Clayton ref within the extended family group.

I had fingers crossed that it might show how many children she had had (alive/deceased). Sadly, in this instance, that info is not included. I had hoped this might have helped to determine how many children had been born.

Added; osprey, from your research:

In 1871 there's an Archelaus Lovell with daughter Selina Clayton married to Frank/Francis
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-9R9R

So Caroline is with her sister and her family in 1911 it seems.

Monica

[osprey]

death reg
Sentenia Smith 98 march qtr 1907 West Bromwich vol 6b pg 521  - born c. 1809

1871 census Centy born c. 1815
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDDN-QWG

1891 Centy born c. 1821
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WQ8X-S3Z

A rarity this, 1841 census entry
Centy 20 so born 1816-1821 because of rounding down
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQB1-HHK
and further on in same place - Rhoda, wife of Jeremiah, and mother of Esau.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQB1-HCM

So you can see how one person's age can vary. Age at death is the most unreliable as the person with the best knowledge wouldn't be able to help.

Yes, MonicaL, there were Claytons at Black Patch earlier.

 

[bbart]

I think this might be her here www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7B6-2BL I am sure I have seen somewhere a Clayton ref within the extended family group.

I had fingers crossed that it might show how many children she had had (alive/deceased). Sadly, in this instance, that info is not included.
 ---
So Caroline is with her sister and her family in 1911 it seems.

Monica

The address on that is 40 Lime St.
I was JUST looking at Charity (daughter of John and Eliza) who married a Clayton, and they have the very same address in 1911.  The house must be divided for multi families?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7B6-2BZ

[rustyh]

A different search. I thought to check to see whether Caroline Smith/Lovell was still alive in 1911 following husband John's death in 1909. I think this might be her here www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7B6-2BL I am sure I have seen somewhere a Clayton ref within the extended family group.

I had fingers crossed that it might show how many children she had had (alive/deceased). Sadly, in this instance, that info is not included. I had hoped this might have helped to determine how many children had been born.

Added; osprey, from your research:

In 1871 there's an Archelaus Lovell with daughter Selina Clayton married to Frank/Francis
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-9R9R

So Caroline is with her sister and her family in 1911 it seems.

Monica

On that list I put together today in the one drive folder, there is a Frank Clayton at Black Patch in 1901

Frank Clayton
Ancelina Clayton
Raboy Clayton
Phineas Clayton
Mildera Clayton

[rustyh]

There is also an Amos Clayton in 1891 at BlackPatch

Frances Clayton (Head)
Reby Clayton (Son)
Susannah Clayton (Daughter)
Prudence Clayton (Daughter)
Frances Clayton (Son)
Amos Clayton (Son)
Relder Clayton (Daughter)

[MonicaL]

So the first listing you have there from 1901 would be Caroline's sister and family. Ancelina as you have there show more frequently as Ann Selina.

Monica

[rustyh]

John and Eliza Tree attached

[osprey]

baptisms for siblings of Esau
John https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J75H-DDM

Samuel https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQB1-HCM

Nathaniel https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQH6-497 - this one may have died

Nathaniel https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ68-QY5 noted as gipsies on register

possible baptism for Wrighton with Esau's family in 1841
20 March 1814 Norton, Northamptonshire Rito Smith son of Smith a gipsy, no other details

possible burial 3 July 1841 Stockton, Warwickshire Rito Smith 28 a gipsy