The Adelaide Brickwall - possibly Black Patch Gypsy

[MonicaL]

Can't be the same couple  As you say, the right John and Caroline are at Black Patch in 1901. The right John was born 1839 whilst the John at 44 Downing Street in 1901 is showing as aged 70, born c.1831.
So, looks like someone may have picked up on John and Caroline "Black Patch" as the parents of their Joseph....and built their ancestry around them?

Monica 

[osprey]

Just found a couple in the 1911 that might be the same people

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWWW-FTB

John of the family we're looking at died in 1909 according to the info supplied.

[rustyh]

The other John and Caroline are Nathaniels Son and Daughter
Nathaniel is another son of John and Caroline listed first.
Not sure if you got the link to the one drive folder with all the family tree I sent you on PM, but that lists out the sons and daughters.

I'm not bringing to much to the party, sorry. You are finding out so much!

There has to be some link somewhere to Adelaide Hall 

[rustyh]

Just found a couple in the 1911 that might be the same people

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWWW-FTB

John of the family we're looking at died in 1909 according to the info supplied.

Hmmmm, it could be, but some of the information is mismatch. Like she was born 1849, but the tree I sent shows her Baptised 12/2/1843. And shows her born in Stafford, but in the tree she was Baptised in Haseley. These are quite far apart.

[rustyh]

Just thinking, there is alot of information aboit the wider family being built up from the start of this thread that is just getting more and more interesting.
You all use alot more places to find the info that I knew about, but I was wondering if there was a free place we could start to log all these branches to help not get lost in it all, that we all have access too.
I use Ancestry which I know not everyone uses

[MonicaL]

Just found a couple in the 1911 that might be the same people

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWWW-FTB

Certainly two couples, osprey. Thanks for that as I have spent a while trying to include or exclude that Joseph from the main Smith family we are looking at!

This Caroline's birth place, Bloxwich, is the same as Joseph Smith gave on his US naturalization papers. So, everything together, makes me happy now to put this Joseph aside as not connected (in my opinion).

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Russ, that is a great idea 

Can I suggest something for you to consider first? If you, I would use A/try for now to build up the tree. It is there and you are familiar with it. It is a large complicated tree and you have now a lot of material.

Once you are happy and confident about how all the info comes together and sources, then you can look out to link your info to other sites and let people know you have this (reason it is important for you to be confident about the material you are adding and original sources).

For example, there is another board here on RC that you could add a post with a link to this thread so anybody interested in this family and looks there first, they could be signposted here. See www.rootschat.com/forum/travellers/

Monica

[osprey]

Rustyh, you'll find that ages and places of birth can vary quite widely when researching traveller families. The first names can vary as well (the variants of Esau & Sentenia wouldn't get picked up by soundex) and when that goes with the Smith surname, and moving around at least 3 counties, it all gets rather tricky.

I've been working through some of the families from the details you gave in case I can find them in 1881. No joy as yet.

The John from Downing Street was born c.1830 according to the 1901 census so which Nathaniel was his father? I found a Nathaniel who was the son of Jeremiah & Rhode but he was baptised in 1827 so couldn't be the father of that John.

 

[MonicaL]

I think I have confused things with the enquiries on the Joseph Smith I was looking at 

Hmmmm, it could be, but some of the information is mismatch. Like she was born 1849, but the tree I sent shows her Baptised 12/2/1843. And shows her born in Stafford, but in the tree she was Baptised in Haseley. These are quite far apart.

We can ignore this couple, Russ. The correct John and Caroline are at Black Patch, with Adelaide Hall, in 1901. The other couple are just a co-incidence with names and all of that!

Monica