The Adelaide Brickwall - possibly Black Patch Gypsy

[rustyh]

Hmmm, having said that, the only Adelaide Wilson on GRO is Q4 1900 in Hartlepool!!

WILSON    Adelaide        Hartlepool    10a   165
 

But then on the march 1901 census she is down as 10 month old, which would suggest May born.
There also doesn't seem to be a husband living with Sarah.

[osprey]

the 1839 baptism for John, search for image 110

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGBH-SG4

Possible marriage for Woodfine Smith & Sarah Bozwell, image 357

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVWP-X65

Marriage 20 Nov 1811 in Newnham, Northamptonshire for Jeremiah Smith & Rhode Smith, no witnesses noted.

[bbart]

I googled "Romany gypsy naming convention" and found this, although American based, touches on all gypsies, and he mentions they have  more than one first name.... one used in their own circles, one for when out in public, and often a third nickname used amongst their own encampment.  He also mentions they don't register their births unless they need it later in life, by which point most don't remember the correct date:  http://johncooke.com/old_site/name/gypsy.htm

It might be worth cruising through this old forum thread, where some people have found various first names for some of your Smiths:  https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/black-patch.10821/page-5

[bbart]

I thought at first that William's occupation said "carter".  Could it be "caster"?

[MonicaL]

I think it is carter, bbart. Look at the R in Park (High Park St). We also have a S in Spinster which looks a little different.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Not connected to Adelaide but just trying to add details to the family line for John S and wife Caroline. A son Joseph born 1876 is showing as a son of theirs on a number of family trees. There is a little on him online including his move to the US where he died in 1965 www.findagrave.com/memorial/148386289/joseph-smith

He married in Handsworth in 1899 to a Mary Ann Pearce. His father shows as John Smith, horse dealer. A daughter Edith born in England and they left for the US in 1904.

I am just having a problem getting something definitive on him to connect him to John S and Caroline. We have so far not found the family's 1881 census entry which is a pity as it would have helped generally to sort out the main group of their children. He is not with them in 1891. He was married by 1901.

His application for naturalization in the US (Connecticut) gives his birth as 8 Nov 1876.

Can anyone see a birth or christening entry for him, or anything further that would help to confirm his parents?

Monica

[osprey]

not seeing a birth with mmn Lovell or a baptism. Address given on marriage cert is 44 Downing Street.

1901 census 44 Downing Street RG13/2708 folio 28 pg 4
John Smith head mar 70 hawker b. Birmingham
Caroline wife 50 b. Staffs Wolverhampton

 

[MonicaL]

So it is a match on the address at least. There is another Joseph born about the same time/ locality and also married a Mary Ann which muddies the water a bit.

This is Joseph and new family in 1901 at Black Patch www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQP-L47

bbart, we were talking about being a Caster by trade, this Joseph is a Brass Caster 

US censuses for Joseph and family:

1910 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MK2P-QJK
1920 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCNP-2CM
1930 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XM52-VMX
1940 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KWM9-7X2

Then we have naturalization papers for him and wife Mary Ann (includes photos of both) and their deaths/burial.

Would be good to actually confirm his parents as John and Caroline (with a name like John Smith  ).

Monica

[osprey]

John & Caroline are in the caravans at Black Patch in 1901 with granddaughter Adelaide Hall. So are there 2 couples called John & Caroline or one couple enumerated twice?

I was having another look for the 1881 census and looked at the rest of Foundary(sic) Road in 1891 and spotted Esau & Centy

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WQ8X-S3Z

There are some other Smith families and Claytons camped there.