Orphan William Allen

[j-allen]

I wonder if anyway can get me out of a mind fog as I seem to be going round in circles looking for my husband's Gt. Grandfather William Allen. On the 39 Register he gives his d.of b. as 21.7.1862 where he is living with his married daughter Gladys Griffith in Swansea. I cannot find any BMD that fits if I take a Glamorgan registration District. Fortunately I was able to find his marriage to Ann Davies 28.12.1883 in Llangafelach where he states he is 22 (one would assume he'd had his birthday that year which then puts it at 1861) and here I then see that there is no father on the marriage certificate.                                                   

Trawling Ancestry I come upon Poor Law documents for 1872 and 1873 in the Hamlet of Mawr which I know covers Llangafelach and William Allen is an orphan aged 11 and 12 respectively (b.1861?) and subsequently find an 1871 Census: Mawr Higher, Glandulais, Llangafelach, John Thomas 28 Coal Miner, Mary Thomas 29 wife, William, 9 Foster Child. Fortunately this ties up as John Thomas is a witness at his wedding in 1883, unfortunately John Thomas doesn't put a place of birth. After his marriage I can follow all the 3 census where he swings mostly from being 28,39, living in Swansea then in 1911 he changes 48 to 49 and has moved to Ammanford. Also his places of birth vary too!

Am I assuming too much that his birth is in Glamorgan? Having trawled the BMD for any births anywhere in a July-September quarter 1860,61 and 62 nothing seems to fit. I am running out of options as to where to carry on my search plus being slightly hampered by the Welsh place names! My assumption is that sometime after his birth, possibly his mother died, making him an orphan taken into care as an "Outdoor Pauper" as the Poor Law register states, although the place stated as resident is Rhyd ??

I really would appreciate any help in trying to find him because until I do I cannot progress in my research any further. Many thanks.

[iluleah]

Maybe not born/registered in the district you think... may have lived there but born there and so registered elsewhere also do a wider search, the 1939 register is secondary information aand many people didn't celebrate their birthday, many didn't even know it especially 150 year ago.

My great grandmother gave various years of birth/age over her lifetime on census, marriage and even her death cert/grave stone( info from her daughter, my nana)... the date of her celebrated birthday was wrong and I only found out when I found her  baptism date leading me to her birth certificate and that was in another county than the one she always claimed.

[j-allen]

Thank you iluleah for getting back to me. I had already said quote:
Having trawled the BMD for any births anywhere in a July-September quarter 1860,61 and 62 nothing seems to fit. The "anywhere" was in Wales.

Glad you were able to reconcile your research.

[iluleah]

Thank you iluleah for getting back to me. I had already said quote:
Having trawled the BMD for any births anywhere in a July-September quarter 1860,61 and 62 nothing seems to fit. The "anywhere" was in Wales.

Glad you were able to reconcile your research.

I suggest you expand your quarter

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Looks rather complicated, but may have someting

Start with a possible for William

1881 - 39 Llangyfelach Road Corner House Beershop

John Daniel    36
Ann Daniel    34
David Daniel    11
John Daniel    8
Mary Daniel    6
William Allan    18 - brother in law b Aberdare
Ann Davies    20
Mary Rees    13


1871 - Llangyfelach, looking at the Daniel family, who appear to be related, and we find another Allen

David Mathews    76  [16 n Ancestry] Widow, publican
Eli Allen    14 - grandson b Aberdare
John Daniel    27  - lodger
Ann Daniel    25
David Daniel    1
Ann Daniel    13 - servant

Note

Marriages Jun 1867    Swansea    11a   787   
DANIEL    John        
HUMPHREYS    Ann    


Now bear with me, and follow forward from David Matthew



1841 - Llangyfelach

David Mathew    45
Margret Mathew    45
Mary Mathew    15
John Mathew    12

1851

Llangyfelach
   
David Matthew    55
Margaret Matthew    56
Ann Humphrey    5 - b Aberdare

Aberdare

David Humphrey    28
Mary Humphrey    24 - b Swansea
Mary Humphrey    1
William Evans    28

HOMPHREY, ANNE        
mmn MATHEWS     
Q1 1846  MERTHYR TYDFIL UNION  Volume 26  Page 384

HUMPHREY, MARY        
mmn MATHEW     
Q3 1850  MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 26  Page 444

ie Mary Matthew has married and one of her daughters is living with her grandfather in LLangyfelach

1861 

Aberdare

James Bedmede    40
Mary Bedmede    35 - b Swansea
Ellin Bedmede    6
Amy Bedmede    4
John Bedmede    2
Margaret Bedmede    7/12
Thomas Bedmede    8
Mary Humphrey    11 - stepdaugher

Marriages Jun 1853   (>99%)
Bidmead    James Allen        Merthyr    11a   584
Humphreys    Mary        

Mary has remarried - James' middle name is interesting

"Ellen" is actually a boy

BIDMAID, ELI        
mmn HUMPHREY     
Q3  1855  J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 336

Others of the children have mmn Matthews

I think Eli Bidmead is ELi Allen, grandson of David Matthew in 1871, alongside his older half sister Ann, now married tp John Daniel

William is then with half sister Ann in 1881

So - is this William?

BIDMAID, WILLIAM
mmn        MATTHEWS     
GRO Reference: 1863  M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 369


there is a slight fly in the ointment in that James Bidmead is alive in 1871 in Aberdare, using the Allen surname [Aller on Ancestry], alongside a William the right age, but it wouldn't be the first time someone is enumerated twice. A number of James and Mary Bidmead's children have Allen as the middle name, which suggests a bit of fluidity around the surname used

[j-allen]

Hi Mable, Gosh what research! I have to say though that this is in a direction I don't think is the same as William's. The main point being that he was fostered by a man who came to his wedding in 1883 so I know his marriage is correct and that Gladys is a daughter he is living with in the 1939 register.       

My husband's grandfather Albert Henry Allen b.1902 and Glady's' brother, is one of 12 children that William and Ann had, so I know that from the marriage onwards everything I have is correct.

Thank you for your interest.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Yes he's with John THomas in 1871, but nt in 1881.  Where is he in 1881, other than the  Willian Allan  I found?

[j-allen]

Possibly as he is older now and not an orphan needing care, he isn't with John Thomas. I found a possible William Allen, 20, Boarder, Coal miner, staying with John Jenkins family, John Street, Llanwonno. I have said that he gives different places of birth, this time it's Pembrokeshire. On the 1901 census with his wife he puts Scotland!! I have to say the jury is out on this 1881 census!
Interestingly on his marriage certificate he puts "Glandulais" as his residence in 1883 which I assume he still considers his home with John Thomas.

I am assuming you think that the Ann Davies on your 1881 census is the woman William married? He is 18 and she is 20 on there. Two years later on the marriage cert. he is 22 and she is 20 so younger than William. I had already found Ann's census and she is living with her family.
John Davies 45 Ag. Lab b. Llangyfelach,Anne wife 48, Ann daughter 16  and William 9. Living in Llangyfelach. (John Davies is the father on the marriage certificate)

Edit: A better option might be what I have just stumbled across. On the next 1881 census page to John Thomas is Henry Thomas, 57 Farmer, Ann his wife and some children, and William Allen 18 Farm servant b. Swansea. Hard to read the name of the farm Llwyn......... Pontadarwe. On the other hand he was a coal miner when he married two years later............so who knows!

[osprey]

think that farm name is meant to be Llwyn Gweno

map for farm, neighbouring farms on census are nearby

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qg8/