Hitting A Brick Wall With Logan family

[Rosinish]

"A bit tedious to search the GRO manually like that but it produces results."

Isn't it just when you're so used to the ease of SP.

Annie

[Alan of Kaslo]

Yes indeed SP site has us spoiled...

You can go to SP and under census 1881 LDS free just type "travelling showman" under occupation and nothing else... Quite a few pop up. Including George Rose and Mary Ann Milner... but also what looks to be George's brother ...also listed Rose (William Roseand wife Jessie).

They both live at:

Dwelling: Callander Riggs Caravan

William ROSE
1881
M
41
308380
Dwelling: Callander Riggs Caravan
Falkirk, Stirling, Scotland
Liverpool

Just another crumb of a clue...

[Rosinish]

I wouldn't be surprised if George's parents were Scottish as Rose is a common name here.

I also noted Brechin which is known for 'Travellers' which reminded me of 2 books I've read...

The yellow on the broom & Red rowans and wild honey, both by Betsy White (nee Townsley)

Annie

[Alan of Kaslo]

I think you are right! I checked and plenty of Roses in Montrose alone...

Even a couple George Roses ...neither of which ended up being the Showman.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Here are a couple supporting documents...

Birth of daughter Harriet Rose 1855 at Prestcott
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tyieLbZlltdQWXS2b1uJw-iOX_RM-LtQ/view?usp=sharing

Death of daughter Sarah Ann Rose/Pinder in 1933 (major clue about what kind of showman George was!!!)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MrNsmmX6PA39JVfKbX3eBY3od1UaXw5K/view?usp=sharing

[marklogan]

On that last document, do you think it says Figure Showman?

I traced Sarah Ann's marriage last night and the Pinder family seems to have quite a large travelling circus that numerous websites cover. It's fascinating to look at the old photographs from that period from the circus.

I'm just on my lunch break at work and glancing through quickly whilst I have ten minutes but will look properly again tonight.

Thanks again

[Alan of Kaslo]

Pretty wild stuff! I wonder if it was wax figures that George Rose travelled around with? Anyhow I deduced that the William Rose mentioned in the 1881 Scotland census as living same location as George ...is his son William. Census said 41 ears old in 1881 so 1840/41 birth.

Found on the GRO:

     Name:    Mother's Maiden Surname:
   ROSE, WILLIAM        MILLINER     
GRO Reference: 1841  S Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 20  Page 311

Also here is George Roses death cert from 1882:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VeoyHmlInT_5UC8PSNqLIgrUdmejqrD/view?usp=sharing

Unfortunately as you see the middle entry only, George's entry is botched bad with poor handwriting and bad ink...possibly a hair across later... When you have docs like that and you cannot decipher what it says then its time to post at Rootschat's handwriting deciphering department.

So I did that. What we know so far is George Rose's father is William Rose. His occupation is still unknown (take a stab at it). Waiting for sage advice from the handwriting experts. George' mother I would guess says "Jane"...but I'm no expert and am waiting for word. Her maiden name is crossed out/unknown.

I searched Liverpool/Manchester/Lancashire business directories late into the night trying to find William Rose and perhaps his occupation. No luck so far. I even checked some the year of birth of George in Manchester but did not see William as of yet.

When the handwriting experts give a verdict I will report back.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Nabbed from other peoples profiles of George Rose, from cenus. (all end at William Rose and unkown wife)

George Rose - Jack of all trades

Residence
1841 • Manchester, Lancashire, England
Miller Street, Manchester. George Rose, a Gilder, boarding with others.

Residence
1851 • Wuerdle and Wardle, Lancashire, England
43 Blacklane End, Wuerdle. Lodging with the Law family, George, a Whip Maker, livng with his wife Mary Ann, daughter, Mary & son, James. His eldest son, William, 9 years old, was lodging two doors away at 41 Blacklane End.

Occupation
1855 • Manchester, Lancashire, England
Toll Court, Prescot, Manchester. George was declared as a Showman on his daughter, Harriet's birth registration. He was then declared a Traveller at her baptism.

Residence
1861 • Todmorden and Walsden, Lancashire, England
Shade Street, Todmorden. George, a Joiner, living with wife Mary Ann & daughters, Mary, Harriet & Clara.

Residence
1871 • Cornforth, Durham, England
Behind Railway Tavern Inn, in Caravans. George, a Joiner, living with wife, Mary Ann, son William, daughters, Mary, Harriet, Clara & Sarah Ann.

Son William Rose Address & Occupation.
1881 • Falkirk Burgh, Stirlingshire, Scotland
George Rose's son, William Rose, also lived at Callender Riggs & was also a Travelling Showman.

George dies in 1882.

If we decipher what William Roses wife name is then we will be further ahead then anyone over in the land of trees. No one has even a wife's first name. It's 4-5 letters and ends with NE. Jane gets my vote...but we shall see.

***** Bonus Crumb *****

Death
Before 1887 • Stirlingshire, Scotland
When daughter Sarah Ann married in 1887, she declared that her father, George Rose, a Shooting Gallery Proprietor, was deceased.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Small update:

Hand writing deciphering volunteers say ask SP for a better copy of the George Rose death cert , so that is what I will do. Their site is down for maintenance at the moment. I will report back.

Also they did say it is "Shooting Saloon Proprietor" 
Not sure of William Roses occupation or wife's first name without a better copy of the doc.

So thanks to those people.

Just noticed the upload i did of George Rose death cert did not work... will post that when SP site opens again.

Also I just re-read and at least in 1843 William Rose seemed to be a weaver...

from above:

George Rose, a bachelor, Baker, father, William Rose, a Weaver, married Mary Ann Milner, spinster, father William Milner, a Moulder.