All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry

[dukewm]

Hello again, good to hear from you.  These dates are a bit later than the branches of my tree, BUT, the families are definitely related, so give me a little time to look into it and I’ll report back anything I find.
Interestingly, my 4th great grandfather was yet another William Downing who disappeared without a trace circa 1803.  His father was misrepresented in our Downing family history and remains unknown.  His wife remarried and his two young sons resurfaced in Coagh, County Tyrone by 1827(?) per Slater’s Directory.  The eldest son, also William, was listed as a Linen Manufacturer.  His purported uncle, Dawson Downing, was a prominent flax grower near Bellaghy, County Derry.
At some earlier point, as I recall, at least one Neill (or O’Neill married into the Stafford Downing branch.
I have at least one other “William” Downing of Dreenan who has not been connected to my tree (yet). 
Stay tuned and thanks for your contributions.

[M_ONeill]

Interesting that you bring up the Linen manufacturing - one of the Dreenan O'Neills was a John O'Neill son of a Felix O'Neill. His will 1889 lists him as a 'Flax-Buyer'. His daughter Mary married Thomas Downing, son of Mary and Robert Downing. Thomas Downing would be the nephew of my putative ancestor Esther Downing.

The earliest reference I can find to a Stafford O'Neill is in the Tithe Applotment Books of 1828. He is listed as a head of household in that year, though strangely the 1831 census of the area doesn't show him. My current (unproven) theory is that he may be a child of James O'Neill and Esther Downing. I suspect there may be a 'missing generation' here, as the catholic records mostly only go back to the 1830s, with sporadic and incomplete records from the late 1820s.

Thanks for taking a look! If I find any other interesting O'Neill/Downing connections, I'll let you know. 

[JACK GEE]

Following this thread with great interest and as you said a 'catchall for Downing/Downey'. No mention of the antipidies but a lot of Irish of all flavours made the trip to the Great Southland and The Shakie Isles. If any made it to Williamstown or The Goulburn Valley in Victoria i am happy to chat. The following is my Downie/Downey attachment -
Alice Maude HERWEG.b.1883St.Kilda. d.30.4.1969 Tatura. m.1906[Reg.1906-1892R] ThomasDOWNIE.b1882.Glenvale near Whittlesea.d.1968Mooroopna

Cheers
Jack Gee

[M_ONeill]

Hi Jack, thanks for posting to the thread! Hopefully you find a connection to your tree in here. 

I thought I'd post some things related to my latest research on the O'Neills of the local area. I think there's definitely a link between the O'Neills of Rocktown and the O'Neills of Dreenan; in fact, my current hypothesis is that the local O'Neills may have started in Dreenan and then spread out from there. I remain convinced that at least one branch of these O'Neills is fairly heavily entwined with the Downings.

(This will likely be spread over a couple of posts)

The Rent Roll Books of The Bellaghy Estate

The first mention of the O'Neills in the local area that I have found is in the Rent Rolls for Dreenan (1718 - 1793). From 1718 - 1729 the only two surnames represented are Mulholland and Downing, with the former paying far more than the latter. This likely represents the Mullholland's former status as the major landowners in the area under the old Gaelic system:

In 1660 these four townlands were listed as under the tenancy of one Cormuck O’Mulholland, Esquire and were entirely Irish. The numbers of adults of tax-bearing age was given for each townland: – Drummuck[7], Mayogall[3], Bally McPeake[7], Dreenan[6] (...) Bryan Mulholland was listed in Drumard in Tamlaght O’Crilly parish which is contiguous with Mayogall and ten Irish adults were tax-payers in 1660.

(Although he's may be too old to be the one listed in the Downing's Dreenan lease of 1734, the name Bryan Mulholland naturally draws the eye here.)

After 1729 there is a gap in the roll books until 1775 when a third name appears in the list: A 'Phelemy O'Neill & Co'. The Downings' rent has risen considerably, which would tally with Dukewm's fantastic research regarding the Downings increased landholdings in Dreenan in the mid-18th century.

By 1788 the names on the roll books have multiplied; reflecting legal changes that made it far easier to get leases on land, as well as the gradual dilution of land through passing generations. Other names that would become prominent in the townland have appeared (e.g. Henry, Higgins, later Convery), as well as a James O'Neill in 1789. I find it potentially telling that the first reported marriage between the O'Neills and the Dreenan Downings came within a generation or so of the O'Neill's first appearance on the rent rolls for the townland.

[M_ONeill]

Tithe Applotment Books (1821-1851)

The next appearance of the O'Neill surname that I've found is on the Tithe Applotment Books. These books were compiled as part of a survey performed in order to determine how much money (or 'tithe') occupants of land over one acre owed to the established, protestant church.

In Dreenan the survey was conducted in 1828, and showed the following O'Neill head of households in Dreenan and the surrounding townlands:

Dreenan
Unnamed O'Neill
Felix O'Neill
Daniel O'Neill
Staford O'Neill★
Danl O'Neill

Drummard
Daniel O'Neill

Gullyduff
Unnammed O'Neill

Dungleady
Chas. O'Neill

Rocktown
Charles O'Neill☆
Jas. O'Neill★


Note that some later townlands are not named in this survey; Eden for example is likely being counted as part of Dreenan. Also of note is that some townlands which do later have a considerable presence of O'Neills are shown here as not having any, such as Ballymacpeake.

The O'Neill surname is actually the second most common listed in Dreenan (assuming none of these individuals are repeated), though easily dwarfed by the Downings who sit in first place with fourteen (!) listed names.

The two names I've highlighted in bold in the applotment books are potentially important re: a Downing connection. The 'Staford' [sic] shown in Dreenan obviously bears the name almost synonymous with the Dreenan Downings. Of the two O'Neills listed as being in Rocktown, James is of particular interest to me personally, as I think my 3x great grandmother Ellen O'Neill may have been the daughter of a James O'Neill. Her (presumed, but likely) brother Stafford O'Neill takes over farmland from a James O'Neill in 1862.

My current (unproven) hypothesis is that the Staford and James listed in 1828 may have been brothers, children of the James O'Neill and Esther Downing mentioned earlier in the thread. My hunch (again unproven) is that Staford may have been the progenitor of the Ballymacpeake branch of 'Stafford' O'Neills by way of Eden; oral family history from that line has George Stafford O'Neill (b. 1860) recalling leaving Eden for Ballymacpeake being 'a boy about 5'.

The highlighted James O'Neill could therefore possibly be the progenitor of the 'Stafford' O'Neill branch of Rocktown. It would potentially explain why the 'Stafford' naming convention is so much stronger in the Ballymacpeake branch than the Rocktown one; a name taken from a more recent direct paternal ancestors perhaps being stronger presence in a family than one taken from more distant relatives.

The Charles O'Neill I've also highlighted from Rocktown could also have a connection to the Downings, though the evidence is even more tenuous than for Staford and James. The only record I can find from around that time in Rocktown is the 1838 catholic baptism of a Charles O'Neill son of a Charles O'Neill and a Mary Fullerton. The family's residence as listed as Killard, the specific subdivision of Rocktown in which all later O'Neills in the townland would live, my ancestors included. (Killard is the northeast corner of Rocktown, right along the border of Drumard).

My eye here is drawn to the name of the mother, Mary Fullerton. This is obviously a name and a family also close to the Downings. Again, it's a tenuous link, but if this is indeed the Charles O'Neill listed in 1828, I find myself wondering if it's telling that both of the only two O'Neills shown in Rocktown have a (potential) Downing connection.

I'll leave it there for now, but I'll probably keep posting any relevant bits and pieces to this thread as and when I find them!

[M_ONeill]

Hey all, I hope anyone following this topic is doing fine! I thought I'd add a couple of small updates to the thread.

I've recently done an Ancestry DNA test, and while I'm waiting for my results, my paternal first cousin has let me take a look at his. While combing through them I discovered a fairly distant relation (9cM shared) whose tree I nevertheless immediately recognised as belonging to the Ballymacpeake branch of the Stafford O'Neills, specifically from one son who stayed in Ireland. There was then another account (also 9cM) who seems to be descended from one of the sons who went to New Zealand. This is the first solid evidence I've found for my long term theory that the two 'Stafford' O'Neill branches are indeed cousin branches.

On top of this, there was a Thruline given by Ancestry that suggested another account (11cM shared) that appears to be a direct descendant of Elizabeth Downing and Michael Dinnen. I still need to do a bit of checking, but the initial read-through does seem to bear out.

This, combined with the other research I've done on land occupancy, naming traditions etc., makes me more and more convinced that the genealogy of Stafford Downing and Rose Mulholland's four daughters as recounted by Stafford Poole is indeed correct.

As an outside chance, there is one result way down in my cousin's matches who seems to descend from some of the Downings of Kilberry Downing, specifically a James Downing and his wife Bridget Henry, married on the 13th Jan 1868 in the R.C. church at Lavey. The tree gives James' parents as John Downing and Ann Knib.

Now, this person's tree has a number of other families from the same area, so it's hard to say whether the DNA link comes from the Downing branch or elsewhere, but I thought it worth mentioning. Said match also has a shared match with my cousin - an account whose descent (or at least part thereof) I've managed to trace back to the Carmichaels of Drumard and possibly to my own direct ancestors William Carmichael and Mary McAward/Ward.

[Romandog1947]

Hello!  I'm new to this board.  I am the source of the information concerning the Protestant Henry family connection.  My fourth great grandmother was Elizabeth Sharon Downing b. 30 Jan 1798 most probably in Co. Derry.  I have been using the information shared here with other data to try to identify the parents of Elizabeth (Betty) Sharon Downing.  She married Robert Hugh Henry on 30 June 1820 and, according to family tradition, left Ireland the next day with her Henry and Fullerton relatives for America.  They landed in Charlestown South Carolina first, spent a few years there before moving on to Alabama where they tarried a short time and finally arrived in what would become Robertson Co. Texas in 1829.  I can trace the Henry line to Loughgiel, County Antrim but I have so far had no luck with Elizabeth Sharon Downing.   

[M_ONeill]

Hi, good to hear from you! I remember coming across your American branch before when looking up the various 'Stafford' families.

They definitely bear a number hallmarks of the Downing families around Dreenan. Firstly, there's the usage of the Stafford name itself (I believe I'm right in saying that one of Betty and Robert's children was called Stafford?). Secondly, there's the related surnames; Henry is a very common surname in the area, being particularly concentrated in the area of the Dreenan Bridge.

The name Fullerton might also of note. dukewm has already noted how the Fullertons of Ballintoy were intermarried with the Downings of Rowesgift, leading to that branch adopting the surname in 1794. I have also come across the surname Fullerton with increasing frequency while researching the O'Neills of Rocktown. There were at least two local O'Neill-Fullerton marriages that I can find, with the name appearing as sponsors and witnesses on a number of O'Neill marriages and baptisms. The Fullerton family seems to have been fairly prominent around Bellaghy as well as to some of the townlands to the north of the town. I've yet to determine whether the Fullertons of Ballintoy were the origin of all the local Fullertons, or whether they are unrelated families of the same name.

One thing we should note is that it seems unlikely that your Elizabeth Sharon is another direct descendant of the Stafford Downing who married Rose Mulholland. This is because they had a surviving daughter called Elizabeth, likely born sometime during the mid-to-late 1780s, who married a Michael Dinnen. This makes me wonder if your Elizabeth Sharon might have been from a cousin branch. Perhaps the child of a sibling of this later Stafford Downing?

[dukewm]

Hello "M"/Michael/Mike,

I have some notes that call you "Mike", so I hope that's your preferred name.

Anyway, I was reviewing some of the old posts on RootsChat, including your thread titled, "The 'Stafford' O'Neills of Rocktown/Ballymacpeake",
and got "deep into the weeds" trying to piece it all together.  Perhaps when I have more time, I'll revisit your O'Neill branch(es), but I've been occupied with a big remodeling project at my house for a while now.

In any case, I'd like to comment on your latest post on my "All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry" thread, dated 28 Jun 2023 (REPLY #41).
Not sure whether any of this has been posted earlier, but nevertheless . . .

As to Elizabeth Downing, dau. of Stafford Downing of Dreenan, and his wife, Rose Mulholland, she did indeed marry Michael Dinnen before 24 Sep 1812.
An Indenture of that date, between Stafford Downing of Dreenan and John Downing of Dreenan, names Stafford's wife as Rose Mulholland and his four daughters as; "Elizabeth, married to Michael Dinnen; Mary, married to Robert Downing; Esther, married to James O'NEILL; and Elinor, listed as a spinster."
Elizabeth and Michael were actually the 3rd great grandparents of one of our research team members, Michelle Dynowski, who wrote a rather extensive book on her family history.
According to Michelle, Elizabeth and Michael had at least three known children, and probably an eldest son named John, b. c.1804, who went to America in the 1820's to try and convince his sister, Rosanna, to return to Ireland.
The other three children were; Rosanna, b. c.1808 (Michelle's 2nd great grandmother), who married John Delevan; Stafford Dinnen, b. c.1812, who married Bridget O'NEILL, b. c.1830, dau. of Bernard O'Neill, and a second unnamed daughter.
The marriage of Bridget to Stafford Dinnen was on 17 Dec 1872 at Lavey Parish RC Church just north of Gulladuff.  I don't have any other info on Bridget's father, Bernard O"NEILL.

Interestingly, Elizabeth's nephew, Thomas Downing, married 17 Jun 1865 at Lavey Parish, Mary O'NEILL, 3rd dau. of John O'Neill of Dreenan.  So, in this relatively narrow branch of the Stafford Downing line, there are three intermarriages to the O'Neill family.

On the marriage of James Downing to Bridget Henery (Henry), I can refer to another RootsChat topic titled, "Downings of Killyberry Downing", dated 1 Jul 2012, posted by James Hanley, who states that he is a great grandson
of James Downing of Killyberry, through his grandfather, Patrick Dawson Downing, 2nd son of James.  The date of their marriage was 13 Jan 1868.  The marriage certificate names James' father as 'John', and Bridget's father as Patrick Henry of Drumard.

On your Reply # 40:
I have no downline for Esther Downing and James O'Neill, but your theory seems to be well founded.  We know she was baptized in 1789, and married before 24 Sep 1812 (the date of the aforementioned Indenture).
It's certainly possible they named a son to honor her father, Stafford, and you have evidence that Stafford (the son) took over the family farm from a 'James O'Neill' in 1862.
Apparently, they had at least two other children, including a 'James' and an 'Ellen'.
It's also notable that Ballymacpeake-Lower borders Eden and Dreenan, so the younger generations didn't stray too far.
Ballymacpeake-Upper borders Dreenan, Drumard, and Rocktown.

On another note, in regards to the FULLERTON surname:
The only connection my Downings have to FULLERTON, are the first marriage of Dawson Downing, son of John Downing of Rowesgift, to Catherine Fullerton, dau. of George Fullerton of Ballintoy, County Antrim.
George was the elder brother of Alexander Fullerton, a prominent medical practitioner and rum trader in Jamaica, who purchased Ballintoy Castle as an investment in 1760 for 20,000 pounds.
Catherine married Dawson Downing on 3 Apr 1773 and had by him two sons, George Alexander, b. 1775, and David, b. 1777/8.  She died in 1785 and predeceased Alexander's Will by 10 years.
George was killed in the American War for Independence in 1780, and Alexander took steps to secure the futures of his two great nephews, provided they assume his surname.
George Alexander and David assumed the Fullerton surname by Royal Licence, dated 1 Dec 1794, and became George Alexander Downing Fullerton, and David Fullerton Fullerton, respectfully.
George Alexander had three sons, but they are all presumed to have emigrated to Great Britain.
I have no further issue by David, so I have no known descendants of that FULLERTON branch who may have stayed in County Derry.

Hope that's not too confusing and there's something in here of assistance.  Slainte !
Rick Turner