Kirchmann - Hesse Darnstadt, Germany

[Peter78]

Hi, in conducting some research of my own family history (I'm also researching for the subject of a biography I'm writing) I've managed to get that of my mum's mums father's family to Germany, in particular, Hesse Darnstadt, and the following, that I'd love to know more about, take back further, if possible....

Heinrich Kirchmann (anglicised, Henry Churchman) 
b. 1841, Hesse Darnstadt

m. Jane Himsworth
b. Barley Hole, Yorkshire, 1847

Looking therefore for anything regarding Kirchmann/Hesse/German/1840s

[BumbleB]

I'm assuming that you have not obtained the marriage certificate for Henry and Jane.  It is possible/probable that that would lead you to Henry's father.

[davecapps]

when and how did he arrive in England?
did he ever return to Germany

[JenB]

when and how did he arrive in England?
did he ever return to Germany

Related thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=844865.msg7117057#msg7117057

reply #6 indicates he was living in Middlesbrough in 1881, and had a child born there c. 1872

[Peter78]

when and how did he arrive in England?
did he ever return to Germany

Something I'd like to find out myself. Granted he had a family in England, but the family knows nothing at all of it's descendants, and the only one that would have had any inkling, my great grandmother, she passed in 2003. Surviving family just has long-forgotten memories of words and hear say so all this is new, including the research, for myself.

Yes, there's another thread, that is in the 'Durham' forum for the family as a whole, I put this in the 'Europe' forum specifically for the gentleman in question, in order to cast the net further afield and not have it specific to one town/city so to speak...

[JustinL]

The name of the region where Henry was born was Hessen-Darmstadt, which covered a considerable part of the modern German state of Hessen (Hesse).

I found Henry with Jane and a young son William in the 1871 census (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBZF-L9Q). The transcribed birthplace (Drakethain) is Germanic-ish, but I wanted to see the original image.

On ancestry, you can find the same census record by searching for Henry Wardman (another classic ancestry transcription). The place name is, unfortunately, unclear. It definitely begins with D, and ends in ...shain, I think, not thain, but I can't make out the letters in between with any certainty. I'm going to search through the German gazetteers.

Justin

[JustinL]

Here's a link to the 1871 census on ancestry https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qcn/

Here's a link to a map showing the historical development of Hessen-Darmstadt
https://www.lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/gsrec/current/1/sn/ga?q=hessen-darmstadt

Are you aware that there were a couple of other Kirchmann (later Churchman) families of German origin in Middlesbrough in the 19th century?

Elisabeth Kirchmann born around 1806 in Hessen-Darmstadt was recorded with son Ludwig (later Louis Churchman), aged 22, and daughter Elisabeth, aged 16, in the 1861 census. She was recorded in 1871 as Elisabeth Churchman with married daughter, Elisabeth Moore, whose husband Henry also came from Hessen-Darmstadt.

She appears to have been married to a Caspar Kirchmann, who may have been the Casper Churchman, whose death was record in Stockton in Q1 1860.

There was also an older Ludwig (Ludwick) Churchman (aka Louis Kirchmann) born about 1815 in Hessen. In 1871, he was recorded with his wife Mary in Linthorpe, Middlesbrough.

[Peter78]

Here's a link to the 1871 census on ancestry https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qcn/

Here's a link to a map showing the historical development of Hessen-Darmstadt
https://www.lagis-hessen.de/de/subjects/gsrec/current/1/sn/ga?q=hessen-darmstadt

Are you aware that there were a couple of other Kirchmann (later Churchman) families of German origin in Middlesbrough in the 19th century?

Elisabeth Kirchmann born around 1806 in Hessen-Darmstadt was recorded with son Ludwig (later Louis Churchman), aged 22, and daughter Elisabeth, aged 16, in the 1861 census. She was recorded in 1871 as Elisabeth Churchman with married daughter, Elisabeth Moore, whose husband Henry also came from Hessen-Darmstadt.

She appears to have been married to a Caspar Kirchmann, who may have been the Casper Churchman, whose death was record in Stockton in Q1 1860.

There was also an older Ludwig (Ludwick) Churchman (aka Louis Kirchmann) born about 1815 in Hessen. In 1871, he was recorded with his wife Mary in Linthorpe, Middlesbrough.

Thanks for the nudge on this JustinL, appreciated.

I dip in and out of the site due to trying to rebuild work-life, and ongoing health issues. The German connection is something that interests though as well...

Thanks again...

[TreeSpirit]

Peter,
I haven’t got any real answers yet, but I do have 2 things that might need some further thought ...

#1

I found Henry with Jane and a young son William in the 1871 census (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBZF-L9Q). The transcribed birthplace (Drakethain) is Germanic-ish, but I wanted to see the original image.

On the same page is the word “Durham” and this “D’ looks very different. Is it possible that Henry’s Birth Place could be (a bad version of) “Hackenheim” instead (or maybe some other town name)? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackenheim for more background.


#2
Where did you find that the German version of Henry Churchman’s name is "Kirchmann"? Or, did you assume that he would have literally translated it? If that is the case, I would not rule out names like Curschman, Klostermann, Christmann etc etc.