Author Topic: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire  (Read 1341 times)

Offline foxoak

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Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« on: Tuesday 02 February 21 09:17 GMT (UK) »
I am trying to pinpoint the parents of  a John Lindsay born around 1790 who was a spademaker in Sanquhar (Crawick Mill) and can be found on the 1841 and 1851 census, but not later. He married a Grace Bannatyne in 1818 in Muirkirk.

But I can't find their birth records to confirm parents names and dates of birth.  I was told that death records would give parents names - but I can't find those either. So am I just looking in the wrong places, or are they not available? I have read that parish registration was patchy to say the least, especially as far as deaths were concerned, so I understand that they may be non-existant. I'm just wondering if there are any experts out there who could help!!     Any clarification much appreciated! 
Oakman - Albury, Brent Pelham, Furneaux Pelham, Foxton, Cambridge
Parr - Exning, Suffolk, Cambridge
Scales - Northwold, Norfolk, Ely, Cambridge
Ward - Aldborough, Norfolk, Islington, Edmonton, Middlesex, Cambridge

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 09:40 GMT (UK) »
On Scotlands People have a look in the section of Wills and Testaments - there is an item there which might be your John Lindsay dated 1854.

If they died before 1855 there will not be a registered death with parents’ names, etc. If you are lucky there may be a burial record, but it is unlikely to give you much information.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline ColC

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 11:06 GMT (UK) »
LINDSAY   JOHN   GRIZAL BANNATYNE   12/06/1818   Muirkirk

Did the marriage give any extra information?

Grizal noted as Grace on 1841 census, All family noted as born Dumfriesshire.
Did the 1851 give their place of birth?

8 children on 1841 census but only two birth records on SP mother Grizzel, none for Grace?

LINDSAY   ISABEL   JOHN LINDSAY/GRIZZEL BALLANTINE    04/03/1824   Sanquhar
LINDSAY   ARCHIBALD   JOHN LINDSAY/GRIZZEL BALLANTINE    28/10/1821   Sanquhar


There are two statutory deaths in Sanquhar before 1871, I see Samuel on the 1841 census but not Andrew?

SAMUEL LINDSAY   Died age 32   MMN   BALLANTYNE   1863   848/ 22   Sanquhar

ANDREW LINDSAY   Died  no age   MMN   BALLANTYNE   1862   Sanquhar

Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline foxoak

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 11:27 GMT (UK) »
I'll have a look at the will and testament area - I'd forgotten to look there.

The marriage register said "John Lindsay of Sanquhar and Grizel Bannatyne of this parish (Muirkirk) - I've had no luck there either so far.

Before 1855 would it not have been necessary for parish registers to register deaths?  Did they really just bury people with no record?
Oakman - Albury, Brent Pelham, Furneaux Pelham, Foxton, Cambridge
Parr - Exning, Suffolk, Cambridge
Scales - Northwold, Norfolk, Ely, Cambridge
Ward - Aldborough, Norfolk, Islington, Edmonton, Middlesex, Cambridge


Offline ColC

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 12:15 GMT (UK) »
The burial records on SP are limited in many parishes before 1855, when I checked the records available for Sanquhar I think there were just a few years before 1750. You can check all the parish BMD records available on the site.

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline Margow

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 14:50 GMT (UK) »
SP has a death certificate for John Lindsay (mother's maiden name McGhie) who died in Sanquhar in 1860 (ref. 848/51).  If it's your man, it should give the names of both his parents.

Margow

Online Forfarian

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Before 1855 would it not have been necessary for parish registers to register deaths?
No. 

Quote
Did they really just bury people with no record?
Yes.

I have read that the church wasn't really very interested in noting death details, because the deceased had gone on to a better place and it wasn't necessary to keep records, as everything necessary would be known in heaven. Or something along those lines.

Before the start of civil registration in 1855 you will rarely get any information about a person's parents in their marriage record, and you only get the father's name in a burial record if the person who died was a young child.

Sources for deaths before 1855 are
- Parish registers. However only a minority of parishes kept registers of deaths/burials.
- Burial records. There are a few surviving burial books which are not part of a parish register.
- Gravestones. But only a small proportion of people have a gravestone.
- Mortcloth records. Every parish had one or more mortcloths that were hired out to cover the coffin during the funeral services. The fees collected are often listed in the records of the Kirk Session, and usually include the name of the person whose funeral it was used for.
- Newspaper announcements. Again, only a very small minority of people's deaths were included
- Wills and testaments. As ever, a minority but not necessarily only the rich and/or illustrious left a will or an estate large enough to warrant confirmation (NB despite what assorted web sites would have you believe, there is no such thing as probate in Scots Law. The corresponding legal process in Scotland is confirmation.)
- Sasines. These are the records of transfer of ownership of land, and will often state the date of death if the change of ownership is by inheritance rather than sale.
- Services of heirs. This is when an heir has gone through a legal process to establish their right to inherit, and sometimes gives a date of death of the person from whom they are inheriting. However these too are only a small proportion of the population.
- Other. I can't actually think of any other sources offhand, but I'm sure someone else will remember something I've forgotten.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 22:25 GMT (UK) »
MEMORIALS OF
SANQUHAR KIRKYARD
by TOM WILSON
Published in 1912
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~cdobie/history/sanquhar.htm

This has a number of references to Lindsay on there, including a John Lindsay, Crawickmill.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Searching for birth / death records in Dumfriesshire and Ayrshire
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 02 February 21 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the names of the children of John Lindsay and Grizel may give some clues. Are you aware of any of the children having a second or middle name?
As far as I can see the children are:
James 1818
John 1821
Isabella 1824
Archibald 1826
Jean 1829
Samuel 1832
Isabel 1836
Helen 1839
Andrew 1841
Note: Grizel is BALLANTYNE on childrens baptism records

A possible baptism for John Lindsay is 14/09/1791 Muirkirk to Andrew Lindsay and Janet Lamb.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)