Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80

[Downieabz]

Hello fellow researchers,

I'm new to this forum and just wanted to register my interest in this campaign (Afghanistan 1878 - 1880). I am happy to help with questions anyone might have, and I am also interested in hearing from the descendants of people who were involved in or around the war.

I have a lot of information at hand but am always interested in more. Queries are welcome, as I like to help out if I can, and it also forces me to look into different aspects of the campaign and I learn more for myself each time.

I have a website, which will be going through some bigger updates over the next few months, at http://www.angloafghanwar.info

All the best -
Garen.

James Downie, son of George Downie and Catherine Fraser, born Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire 26 September 1855, died Mar 1928 Campsie, Stirlingshire, probably served in the 72nd Regiment of Foot in the Battle of Kandahar, according to his obituary:

"Kirkintilloch Gazette Friday 20 April 1928 page 2
The mystery of the disappearance of James Downie, farm servant, Inchbreck, who was last seen on March 12, was solved by the finding of his body on Wednesday afternoon in the Kelvin at Torrance. Downie, who was 72, was for 12 years in the Seaforth Highlanders and took part in Roberts’ march to Kandahar. "

I reached this forum as the first step in researching his military history and would appreciate any help anyone can give me concerning James's part in the second Anglo-Afghan War. He was back in Kirkintilloch in the 1891 Census, working as a carter with his father, so could not have been 12 years in the Seaforths as they were formed only in 1881, However he would probably have transferred to the Seaforths on their formation and probably joined the 72nd before they went to Afghanistan in 1878. I presume that he was no more than a private.

[gortonboy]

his service record is on Findmypast


First name(s)   James
Last name   Downie
Birth year   1858
Birth parish   Kirkintulloch
Birth town   Kirkintulloch
Birth county   Dunbartonshire
Birth country   Scotland
Service number   ?
Regiment   -
Year   1878
Attestation date   18 Feb 1878
Attestation age years   20
Attestation service number   ?
Attestation corps   57th Bde
Document type   Attestation
Series   WO 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army service records 1760-1913
Archive   The National Archives
Archive reference   WO 97
Box   2693
Box record number   31
Record set   British Army Service Records

[Garen]

Hello Downieabz

The 72nd and the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders are the same regiment - it was not much more than a reorganisation and a name change in 1881, so anyone in the 72nd Highlanders in that year would have found themselves in the Seaforths after the change (the Childers Reforms). The 78th became the 2nd Battalion Seaforth Highlanders.

As you can also see from gortonboy's reply, James Downie was in the '57th Brigade' - which can also indicate the Seaforths. Definitely get over to findmypast.co.uk and have a look at his service record.

Looks like he remained a Private in his service from 1878 to 1890 - enlisting with the 79th Foot (Cameron Highlanders) and transferring to the 78th before he served in Afghanistan and Egypt.

That means he was not on Roberts' march from Kabul to Kandahar and did not receive the Kandahar Star. With the 78th he would have come into Kandahar via the Quetta route under General Phayre and was garrisoned at the city from November 1880 until the evacuation in April 1881.

All best - Garen

James Downie, son of George Downie and Catherine Fraser, born Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire 26 September 1855, died Mar 1928 Campsie, Stirlingshire, probably served in the 72nd Regiment of Foot in the Battle of Kandahar, according to his obituary:

"Kirkintilloch Gazette Friday 20 April 1928 page 2
The mystery of the disappearance of James Downie, farm servant, Inchbreck, who was last seen on March 12, was solved by the finding of his body on Wednesday afternoon in the Kelvin at Torrance. Downie, who was 72, was for 12 years in the Seaforth Highlanders and took part in Roberts’ march to Kandahar. "

I reached this forum as the first step in researching his military history and would appreciate any help anyone can give me concerning James's part in the second Anglo-Afghan War. He was back in Kirkintilloch in the 1891 Census, working as a carter with his father, so could not have been 12 years in the Seaforths as they were formed only in 1881, However he would probably have transferred to the Seaforths on their formation and probably joined the 72nd before they went to Afghanistan in 1878. I presume that he was no more than a private.

[RAJA BABAR]

Hello Garen,
My great great grandfather also participated in Afghan War (Ahmad Khel). His name Risaldar Major Nadir Ali Khan, 18th Bengal Lancers. Can i know any tip to proceed

[RAJA BABAR]

Hello Garen,

Can you please give information of my great grandfather, Risaldar Major Nadir Ali Khan, 18th Bengal Lancers, who participated in Battle of Ahmed Khel and recieved medal

Regards,
Babar

[RAJA BABAR]

Can you please give information of my great grandfather, Risaldar Major Nadir Ali Khan, 18th Bengal Lancers, who participated in Battle of Ahmed Khel and recieved medal

Regards,
Babar

[Garen]

Hello Babar

Sorry for my late reply.

I can't tell you anything about your g-grandfather as an individual (the only thing I can check is the casualty roll and the London Gazette, and he's not in either), but I can offer a little about the role of the 18th Bengal Cavalry in the Afghan war.

They were brought in from Umballa to Peshawar in Sept 1879 for the second campaign, with one squadron remaining at Kohat and the other two riding into the Kuram Valley in Jan 1880. Various smaller detachments saw action in the Dec 1879 Zaimukht expedition at Zawa, a skirmish against a body of Kabul Khel Waziris in May 1880 at Thal, and they also participated in the Waziri Expeditionary Force, under General J. J. Gordon, in March and April 1881. They were back in India (Naushahra) at the end of May 1881.

With that regimental history I'm surprised he was at Ahmed Khel (though it wouldn't be impossible, of course, if he was temporarily attached). The 19th Bengal Lancers were at Ahmed Khel. Do you have your g-grandfather's medal?

All best - Garen

Can you please give information of my great grandfather, Risaldar Major Nadir Ali Khan, 18th Bengal Lancers, who participated in Battle of Ahmed Khel and recieved medal

Regards,
Babar

[RAJA BABAR]

Dear Garen,

Thanks for the reply. The following is an extract from soldiersofthequeen.com ,

e: "A veteran of the Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878-1880) Rasildar Major (Major) Nadir Ali Khan was serving with the 18th Bengal Lancers (Fane's Horse) when he attended to
Queen's Jubilee in 1887. The 19th took part in the Battle of Ahmad Khel in 1880 during the Second Anglo-Afghan War. Having entered service in 1858, Ali Khan wears the 1887
Queen's Jubilee Medal and the Second Afghan War Medal.

According to Frontier and Overseas Expeditions from India (1908, Intelligence Branch, Division of the Chief of Staff. Army Headquarters, India) on 22 November, 1879 , Ali Khan led
a small force (thirty-six lances) against and assemble force of Zaimukhtsm,  Mumuzais and Alisherzais tribesmen (about one thousand strong) near the Chapri Post in the Kurram
Valley. The enemy were driven off leaving thirteen dead and many wounded on the field. Ali Khan's little force suffered three sowars wounded"
Moreover a photo is also there on the site. i can also supply you with references from books and dailies in which the officer has been discussed in detail regarding Afghan war.

Best Regards,
Raja Babar

[Barrie Plasom]

HI all,, am new to this,  but during my Family tree research I found a relative that died at Kandahar 1879 oct 10th I think,,,,not sure what regiment he was in ,, Name is Charles Placeham,, born 1851 st george hanover square , ? I have his enlistment  details but cant find any further info,,service number was 1809  ( 1871 )   2nd battalian Northumberland regt of foot,  ( private 5th fusiliers ) The archives record which I cant  trace is WO12/2374,, I would just like to know in detail where he fell,, and if he was actually awarded this Kandahar medal or some such ?  ,,,,, if he wasnt  can this still be claimed by a decendant,,  ( wouldnt be me as Charles was from another branch of my family ) any help would be appreciated,, thanks,,, barrie