Charteris, Hislop/Hyslop, Gracie, Adamson & Cow

[Allana89]

Greetings from Queensland Australia where a branch of the CHARTERIS Dumfriesshire family landed in 1854. The immigrant was Alexander Charteris (1831-1891) & he arrived with his wife Isabella HYSLOP (1826-1883) & her two children, Agnes Kerr & Robert Kerr, (although identified as Charteris on the ship’s passenger list) & their infant, James.

The information I have is:
James CHARTERIS m. Elizabeth COW & had the following issue:
    Robert 1779
    Samuel 1781
    James 1786***
    Robert 1788
    John Maxwell 1790

***James CHARTERIS, a journeyman turner, m.Janet GRACIE (daughter of John GRACIE & Mary ADAMSON)
Their issue:
    John Gracie 1816 moved to Manchester, a pawnbroker, children identified
    Robert 1818
    James 1820
    Thomas 1823
    Ann 1825
    Mary 1827
    Alexander ### 1831, born in Dumfries
    Jemima Louise 1834

###Alexander CHARTERIS m. Isabella HISLOP in Hawich 1852 (Isabella was daughter of John HISLOP & Jane CAIRNS, born in Crossmichael KKD)   The family of five emigrated to Queensland 1854 on 'Genghis Khan'. Their infant, James, died on the journey.
Alexander's & Isabella's Australian born issue:
    James 1856-1911
    Jennett 1858-1923
    Isabella 1860-1927
    Alexander 1862-1929 - this Alexander is my great grandfather.

After prospecting for gold, Alexander eventually settled the family in Maryborough, QLD, where where he plied his trade as a wood turner & established a furniture manufacturing business. His sons & grandsons continued the trade.

Isabella's son, Robert Kerr, adopted the Charteris name & was always known as such. His descendants had no idea they had no genetic connection to Alexander Charteris. Isabella's daughter, Agnes, married several times, moved to New South Wales & was lost to the family. While Robert was counted among the previous issue of Isabella on the 1862 birth record of his half-brother, Alexander, Agnes was not. Agnes had one surviving son & she included HASLEP in his name.

Isabella died in 1883 & Alexander married again in 1884 & had a further 5 children before his death in 1891.

I'm interested to learn more of my CHARTERIS, HISLOP/HYSLOP, GRACIE, ADAMSON & COW ancestors, & of their life in the Dumfries & Galloway counties.

[Forfarian]

Hello Allana89, welcome to RootsChat and thank you for an exemplary first post, stating clearly what information you have, and what you are looking for.

I see from the indexes at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk that Janet Gracie also turns up as Grayson, and that her family were all baptised in the parish of Dumfries. Have you looked at the originals of these baptisms? Do they tell you where they lived, and/or give the names of the witnesses? These can often provide clues to family relationships.

Also that James C and Janet Gracie's banns were proclaimed in the parish of Morton, so at least one of them was living in that parish at the time of the marriage. Have you seen the original? Does it give you any more information?

I also see that the family of James C and Elizabeth Cow were also baptised in Dumfries, but the mother's name is not listed. There's also a Mary, baptised in 1784, who could be a sister, but James' baptism in 1786 seems to be missing from the index. Have you seen all the original baptisms? 

May we assume that your James C, b 1786, is the one who died in Dumfries in 1861, and that you have seen the original of his death certificate, and that that is how you know that he was the son of James C and Elizabeth Cow? And that you have seen the death certificate of Janet Gracie or Charteris, who died in Dumfries in 1871?

Are you seeking information about descendants of the siblings of your direct ancestors?

[Neale1961]

Hello Allanna89
I had a little look at the Hislop – Cairns family
I had assumed that the information you have given about the parents of Isabella HISLOP is correct. However some of the details i have found do not tally with the information you have given. Can you please let us know where your information comes from?

John HISLOP married Jean/Jane CAIRNS in Selkirk on 18/09/1829
Children baptised from this marriage:
•   James HISLOP 30/08/1831 Hawick
•   William HISLOP 06/10/1833 Hawick
•   Isabella HISLOP 24/01/1836 Hawick [Different from yours]
•   John HISLOP 12/08/1838 Hawick
•   Thomas HISLOP 20/12/1840 Hawick
•   Jane HISLOP abt.1843 Hawick (bapt possibly in Hawick Free Church)
•   Margaret HISLOP abt.1846 Hawick (bapt possibly in Hawick Free Church)

The 1841 census has the family in the High Street, Hawick, Roxburghshire https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a155f44f4040b9d6e748735/john-hislop-1841-roxburghshire-hawick-1811-?locale=en
John is working as a woollen stocking dresser. Both John and Jean are recorded as not born in Roxburghshire

The 1851 census sees the family still in the High Street, Hawick  https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59046f50e9379091b138dee1/john-hislop-1851-roxburghshire-hawick-1805-?locale=en
John HISLOP is now a Grocer and spirit dealer- it records that he was born about 1805 in Selkirk.
His wife Jane (Cairns) was born about 1807 in Selkirk (This disagrees with your information that she was born in Crossmichael KKD)

Jane (Cairns) HISLOP died (age 68) in 1877 Hawick. Her death certificate available from Scotlands People may well give you more information about her birth.

Regarding John HISLOP: he does not appear in the 1861 census, so we assume he has died. There is a document in Wills and Testaments (SP) which might give you more information.
Hislop John   Grocer in Hawick   
6/4/1853         
Jedburgh Sheriff Court    
SC62/44/21

[Allana89]

Thank you, Forfarian & Neale 1961, for your prompt & useful responses - you've given me quite a bit to investigate. "What I know" of my Scottish ancestors has come directly from a cousin who did all his investigations back in the 80s & 90s - pre personal computers, internet access to resources, etc. so may not be correct. However, I feel it's a good starting point.

Already your information has some red lights flashing for me - such as, Isabella HYSLOP's age was given as 29 (birthplace Galoway Bress Michael, Kirkcudbright) in the 1851 Census, so born abt 1822 - so it's unlikely she was the Isabella born 1836 to John HISLOP & Jane CAIRNS. Therefore, that parentage is incorrect in my information.

But Isabella was, perhaps, 'elastic' about her age?  Whilst 29 in 1851 Census, her age was also given as 29 (birthplace Crossmichael, Scotland) in the 1856 birth record of her AUS-born son James... Birthplaces differ but ages of her children, Agnes & Robert, fit for both Census & ship's passenger list. And '1851 Census Isabella' & '1852 Marriage Isabella' both in Hawick. So I'm confident 1851 Isabella married Alexander CHARTERIS & emigrated to AUS.

Anyway! I will be offline for a few days but will eagerly resume investigations upon my return & continue the conversation. 

[Neale1961]

There are a few problems ......
I have just had look at the shipping record for Alexander Charteris (Charters) and family arriving August,  Moreton Bay in 1854 on board Genghis Khan.
•   Alex Charters age 23 born Roxburghshire, joiner
•   Isabella Charters age 28 born Galway, wife
•   Agnes age 10 born Dumfries, daughter
•   Robert age 5 born Roxburghshire, son
 I think it is necessary to review the birth information that you have for Isabella.

Also 1851 census for Isabella (with 2 Kerr children), has different information.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59046f54e9379091b138e498/isabella-hislop-1851-roxburghshire-hawick-1822-?locale=en

You say that Isabella died in 1883. Do you have her death certificate - is this the registration?
Isabella Hyslop Charteris
Event date: 20/12/1883
Event type: Death registration
Registration details: 1883/C/2786
Mother: Isabella Hyslop
Father/parent: James Charteris

Names of parents??? Something obviously wrong there.

https://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=15668009

So there is conflicting information, but at the moment, I would say it seems unlikely that your Isabella is the daughter of John Hislop and Jane Cairns.

[Neale1961]

There is a baptism of an Isabella HYSLOP 10 Feb 1822 in Crossmichael – parents James HYSLOP and Isabella  STOTT.
The parents, James and Isabel were married in Dumfries 27 Jan 1805. They had a large family all born Crossmichael KKD: Nicholas 1805, Margaret 1807 , Benjamin 1809, Thomas 1811, Agnes 1813, Anne 1815, James 1817, Isabella 1822.
It is a "possible" to keep in mind - The parents names James and Isabella would match with her 1883 death certificate.

This is the parents in 1841 census.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59034c9be9379091b1473a24/james-hyslop-1841-kirkcudbrightshire-crossmichael-1790-?locale=en

[Forfarian]

Isabella Charters age 28 born Galway, wife

I wonder whether the passenger list was compiled by someone who was more familiar with place names in Ireland than in Scotland, and who thought that Galloway must be a misspelling of Galway?

I see that Isabella is described in the 1851 census as a widow, aged 29, pauper, born Kirkcudbrightshire, Crossmichael. If her age is accurate that puts her DoB between 30 March 1821 and 29 March 1822.

So on 6 June 1841, the date of the 1841 census, she might have been just 20, or she might not yet have been 20 and, because over-15s' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, recorded as 15.

There is a family in 1841 at Hill, Balmaclellan, Kirkcudbrightshire comprising James Hyslop, 55; Isabella Hyslop, 45; William Hyslop, 20; Isabella Hyslop, 15; and two servants. However all four Hyslops are said to have been born outside Kirkcudbrightshire.

There is a 15-year-old Isabella Hyslop in 1841 at Barnspark, Crossmichael, with Jannet Hyslop, 60; Jean Hyslop, 20; and Charles Tait, 6 months.

There's a 15-year-old Isabella Hislop, not born in the county, in the household of Barbara Johnstone at Earlston, Berwickshire, with Eliza Hislop, 13; John Hislop, 10; and William Hislop, 8.

Also four 15 or 20 year old Isabella H*slops, not born in county, listed as servants: one in Rutherglen, one in Traquair, one in Ettrick and one in Straiton.

Information from FreeCEN https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

[Neale1961]

I wonder whether the passenger list was compiled by someone who was more familiar with place names in Ireland than in Scotland, and who thought that Galloway must be a misspelling of Galway?

Well I had not thought of that; but would someone in 1854 say “Galloway” as place of birth.
Possibly.

EDIT- ADDED: The longer I think about it, the more that explanation of "Galloway" misheard as "Galway" makes sense.

[Neale1961]

Since the daughter Agnes Kerr was born about 1841 in Dumfries, here is another 1841 census possibility - in Dumfries.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5902e737e9379091b1d16de1/isobel-hyslop-1841-dumfriesshire-langholm-1824-?locale=en

Is she with her grandmother? Named baby after Grandmother?