How to refer to the same place over time.

[manukarik]

An interesting topic.

Can you imagine how complicated this becomes when one has European ancestry? Many places in central Europe are now in a different country compared to 100 years ago. A friend of mine has ancestry from a small town in what is now Slovakia. However, until 1918 the town was in Hungary. Records appear in Latin, German, Hungarian and Slovakian; and the town has a different name in each language.

I agree with the point that Ruskie made about making it easy for other people to locate the places now, but I think you can solve that with the GPS links. For my own family tree, or rather the write-up, I have created a table which gives the full names of the places through the centuries, but I try to be consistent and use the current location in the main. In addition to that I use the "My Places" function of google maps to plot the various places where ancestors lived.

[manukarik]

An interesting topic.

Can you imagine how complicated this becomes when one has European ancestry? Many places in central Europe are now in a different country compared to 100 years ago. A friend of mine has ancestry from a small town in what is now Slovakia. However, until 1918 the town was in Hungary. Records appear in Latin, German, Hungarian and Slovakian; and the town has a different name in each language.

I agree with the point that Ruskie made about making it easy for other people to locate the places now, but I think you can solve that with the GPS links. For my own family tree, or rather the write-up, I have created a table which gives the full names of the places through the centuries, but I try to be consistent and use the current location in the main. In addition to that I use the "My Places" function of google maps to plot the various places where ancestors lived.

Oops pressed the button too quickly!

You make an interesting point. Places in Poland could be in Russia or Prussia or the Austrian Empire at different times. There were the Spanish Netherlands and Alsace-Lorraine have moved between France and Germany. How do you refer to placers in Germany and Italy prior to unifcatio? 

[manukarik]

I agree with the point that Ruskie made about making it easy for other people to locate the places now, but I think you can solve that with the GPS links. For my own family tree, or rather the write-up, I have created a table which gives the full names of the places through the centuries, but I try to be consistent and use the current location in the main. In addition to that I use the "My Places" function of google maps to plot the various places where ancestors lived.

I'd like to create a table, as you suggest, but am struggling to come up with a definitive reference to a place at a set time.

[JustinL]

Having ancestors from Germany and London, I can appreciate your headache.

Perhaps you could post a couple of examples where you are struggling.

[manukarik]

Having ancestors from Germany and London, I can appreciate your headache.

Perhaps you could post a couple of examples where you are struggling.

I have Bermondsey, Southwark, Surrey; Bermondsey, Surrey and Bermondsey, London and places in Shoreditch suddenly becoming Hackney.

I guess the issue is that local government keeps changing - do you try to mirror that with the Sanitary, Rural or Urban District, Borough or District or stick to the often only Ceremonial County? I certainly know that Bermondsey is in London, but to me it makes senses to use the historical reference and then to note what is known as now (which could of course change again under some future reorganisation).

Some of my ancestors are from Lincolnshire and certainly the boundaries have changed, except for the Ceremonial County which crosses over into neighbouring areas. I've seen reference to North and North East Lincolnshire and also the smaller areas of Lincoln, North Kesteven, South Kesteven, South Holland, Boston, East Lindsey, and West Lindsey. Is it best to stay with Lincolnshire or to refer to the local government area for the time period looked at?

[chris_49]

I'd certainly use the three parts of Lincs, eg Stamford, Kesteven. Lincs so no doubt can occur. (I always give the Riding in Yorks addresses). No such place as North Lincs or the dreaded Humberside back then. London is a minefield, but I'd choose the name by which it was known at the time, only elaborating if he place name has fallen out of use. I realise London expanded gradually into the surrounding counties both physically and administratively, so that places that were once Middlesex or Surrey became London - I suppose technically you should choose whichever was correct at the event, if it matters much to you.

[markheal]

Border Civil Registration Districts:

If another family researcher has the money to buy the correct BMD certificates so as to double check my research, the post-1837 Civil Registration District name [in UPPER CASE] will be useful to them, especially when my town and surrounding villages changed DISTRICT and therefore County at least three times.  All these changes are well tracked at: https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/farnham.html

[JustinL]

I hadn't realised that the situation had become so very complicated in the UK since the Local Government Act of 1888.

Have you come across the Association of British Counties? You may find this of great interest http://gazetteer.org.uk/notes.

Also this http://historiccountiestrust.co.uk/Historic_Counties_Standard.pdf from The Historic Counties Trust.

I'm still reading through the fascinating material on the two websites.

Just had to add a link to a very useful interactive map https://www.rootschat.com/links/01q4j/

[Maiden Stone]

Thanks, Justin.
There were major reorganisations in England and Wales,1974 and Scotland, 1975. Further changes at end of 20th century.