Author Topic: William ( younger ) Innes  (Read 10413 times)

Offline GR2

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Re: William ( younger ) Innes
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 18:29 GMT (UK) »
Another bit from the database:

18.3.Alexander in Corries of Tomnavoulin, Glenlivet ca 1650-post 1672
19.1.Andrew in Corries of Tomnavoulin (ca 1700, 1720-) m Helen Brown
20.1.John
20.2.William in Kearn by Tomnavoulin (ca 1730,1750) m Penuel Grant
21.1.William younger in Kearn, after in Sluggan (b ca 1760) m 1806 Janet Grant
21.2.David in Kearn m Anne Innes
21.3.Alexander in Kearn m Elizabeth Stewart
21.4.James in Muir of Croftbain m Barbara ?
21.1.Christine by George Innes (shoemaker in Aberlour)
21.2.Penuel m William Innes in Easter Corries
21.5.William (natural) b.1780 shoemaker in Rathven? (see below)

Offline GR2

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Re: William ( younger ) Innes
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 18:34 GMT (UK) »
Another bit.

19.1.Andrew in Corries of Tomnavoulin (ca 1700,1720-) m Helen Brown T&C 61
20.1.John (see below)
20.2.William in Kearn by Tomnavoulin (ca 1730,1750) m (presumed) Penuel Grant T&C 61
21.1.William younger in Kearn, after in Sluggan (b ca 1760) m (1) 1807 Margaret Grant
T&C 61; OPR Inveravon
22.1.Alexander b.1808 T&C 61; OPR Inveravon
22.1.Christian m 1821 Charles Stuart T&C 61; OPR Inveravon
21.1 William m (2)1814 Janet Cameron T&C 61
22.1.John b 1820 by Anne Grant T&C 61
23.1.William b.1850 (illegitimate) T&C 61
22.2.William 1822-1900 sometime in Craighead of Kearn m (1) Margaret Grant T&C 62
23.1.Mary b.1851 m Alexander Mitchell grieve at Aberlour Home farm T&C 62
23.2.Jessie housekeeper to Sir Gordon Cunard at Hastings T&C 62
23.3.Margaret b 1851 dsp age 21 T&C 62; OPR Inveravon
22.3 William mason at Glenlivet m (2) 1859 Margaret Shaw, T&C 62
23.1.Donald b.1864 m twice dsp Melbourne, Australia T&C 62
23.2.William of Tomnamuidh, Dufftown, manager distilliery b.1866 m (1)1893
Margaret Foster) T&C 62
24.1.Edwin b 1907 manager McDonalds Tobacco factory, Montreal, Canada m Lisa
Brunel T&C 62
24.1.Mary Margaret Shaw m John Steel, Inverness T&C 62
23.3.John carpenter Croftbain b 1868 m Helen Stephen T&C 62
24.1.John b.1868 resided Detroit m Marjorie ? T&C 62


I think all this would have to be a starting point, rather than the final word.

Online Forfarian

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Re: William ( younger ) Innes
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 18:54 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, GR2.

That all looks a bit confusing, but the very first line is the one I am querying.

It also gives as the mother-in-law of Margaret Grant one Penuel Grant, not Elizabeth (or Margaret!) McDonald, and it suggests that William Innes in Kearn and later in Sluggan, was married three times: first to Janet Grant in 1806, then to Margaret Grant in 1807, and then to Janet Cameron in 1814; and it gives his DoB as c 1760, which is at odds with his consistently stated age in the censuses in 1841 (60), 1851 (73) and 1861 (83).

The death certificate of Alexander Innes, soldier, husband of Elizabeth Stuart, whom Dufftown believes to be the brother of William Innes younger in Kearn, says that his mother was Elizabeth McDonald, not Penuel Grant.

If Christian Innes, who married Charles Stuart in Kirkmichael in 1821, was the daughter of William Innes and Margaret Grant, she can hardly have been a younger sister of Alexander Innes who was baptised in 1808. He was baptised on 10 January 1808. Let us suppose that he was born on 1 January 1808. Then his mother could hardly have had another child before say 1 December 1808. Such a child would then have been just 12 years and 6 months old when Charles Stuart married Christian Innes, and just 13 years old when Ann, daughter of Charles Stuart and Christian Innes was born. If there was anything like the normal 2-year gap between Alexander and Christian, Christian would not have been old enough to marry legally in 1821 at all. So she must have been a daughter of a different William Innes, not of the one who married Margaret Grant.

Also, there is in the 1841 census a Christian Stuart, aged 55, with Ann Stuart, 15, in Tomintoul. If this is Christian Innes, she was born in 1781/1786. More likely to be a sister than a daughter of William Innes in Kearn and later Sluggan.

Quote
The Fasti just says Alexander Innes (1735-1819), minister of Glenlivet, married and had issue, without giving details. I will look at the Innes database again.
Yes, that is what the article in Vol 6, p 342, says. However there is another article in Vol 8, p 613, that lists his issue as "John Alexander Robert, Lieut 48th Regiment".

John died on 26 April 1870 in Newton, Inveravon; Alexander died 13 May 1875 in Shenval, Inveravon; and Robert (Lieutenant, 48th Regiment of Foot) died on 22 January 1877 in Milford Cottage, Aberlour. All three death certificates name their father as Alexander Innes, minister, and their mother as Elizabeth Innes.

Although I hesitate to question one as illustrious as Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, it does look as if there is some reason to doubt at least some of it?



Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline GR2

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Re: William ( younger ) Innes
« Reply #48 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 22:42 GMT (UK) »
Although I hesitate to question one as illustrious as Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, it does look as if there is some reason to doubt at least some of it?

The more illustrious, the more the need to question and doubt.


Online Forfarian

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Re: William ( younger ) Innes
« Reply #49 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 23:07 GMT (UK) »
The more illustrious, the more the need to question and doubt.
Aye, well, having gone through it once I think there is ample justification for questioning it. There are some very definite mismatches between those extracts and the information recorded in the OPRs and statutory registers.

I'm going to have at least one more look through it and then post the results for everyone else to have a look at.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Dufftown

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Christiana Innes
« Reply #50 on: Thursday 03 December 20 01:45 GMT (UK) »
Christiana Innes and James Innes younger in Glenrinnes had an affaire and their son George Innes was born on the 25 Jan.1810

The extract for George Innes born on the 25 Jan.1810 states that he was an illigitimate child and the witinesses were David and William Innes in Kearn.
Let me know if you want to continue Rosinesh.
I have more information to supply.

William in Montreal

Offline Dufftown

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Christina Innes
« Reply #51 on: Thursday 03 December 20 13:57 GMT (UK) »
As you see in this extract LAWFULL as compared to NATURAL does tell you that the birth of George Innes was out of Wedlock.
That means that George Innes  born 25 Jan.1810 may be shown in two ( 2 ) Families.
a) The family of Christina Innes because this confirms that she was the biological mother of George Innes
b) The family of James Innes since he is the biological father.


 William in Montreal

Offline Dufftown

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Christina Innes
« Reply #52 on: Thursday 03 December 20 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Christina Innes married on the 17 May 1821 Charles Stuart. In this marriage only 1 female child was born. Kirkmichael and Inveravon

I believe this is RC marriage.

William in Montreal

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Christiana Innes
« Reply #53 on: Thursday 03 December 20 15:58 GMT (UK) »
Christiana Innes and James Innes younger in Glenrinnes had an affaire and their son George Innes was born on the 25 Jan.1810

The extract for George Innes born on the 25 Jan.1810 states that he was an illigitimate child and the witinesses were David and William Innes in Kearn.
Let me know if you want to continue Rosinesh.
I have more information to supply.

My only interest was the questions I'd asked which, if you'd taken the time to answer, may have helped you not me?

There have been several issues raised by Forfarian which you've failed to both acknowledge or answer for whatever reason.

From what I can see, Forfarian has gone a long way out of her way to help you in several ways & a long way from her home...

'going to the 'Heritage Centre in Elgin and transcribed the baptisms in the Roman Catholic parish registers from the microfilms there (this being before the RC records were added to Scotland's People), trekked up various hills to photograph various gravestones and ruins including the RC cemetery at Buiternach, Craighead and Mains of Quirn/Cairn/Kearn'

She has also gone over others' work after finding conflicting evidence, to rectify it by using primary sources i.e. not someone's writing in a book which was obviously not verified, in order to help you but I've neither seen an acknowledgement or a thanks to Forfarian on this thread!?

It seems to me you are completely ignoring the facts laid out by Forfarian which don't match what you continually want to believe.

Annie
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