John Rees, Margaret Rees (nee Samuel) and family in 1861!

[hmdavs]

Hi Richard and Roy,
Thanks both for such an interesting Chat. I have just joined and this is my first post.
I found Jonathan Rees in 1861 with his married sister Margaret Bowen and older brother John at Llangynwyd, Glamorgan:
1861 Census. At 44 Grove Street Llangynwyd Higher, Llangynwyd Margam Glamorgan with brother-in-law Henry Bowen (31) Blacksmith, sister Margaret (28), their daughter Elizabeth (2) and single brother John Rees (23) Iron Puddler, Jonathan, scholar, aged 10.
Richard, can you confirm that John's daughter Elizabeth, born 1840, married master mariner Daniel Thomas and had children Elizabeth Margaret, Hannah Kate and Cornelius Rees Thomas?
Happy New Year to you both,
Howard

[Cyfrifydd]

Hi Howard

Yes, according to my records Elizabeth (Rees) was born on 26th April 1839 (not 1840).  She married master mariner Daniel Thomas on 23rd May 1861 (I think it's the 23rd).  Her children were Elizabeth Margaret (3rd March 1866 to 2nd June 1897), Hannah Catherine (Kate) 14th September 1870 to 14th October 1948 and Cornelius Rees 7th February 1872 to 21st March 1940.

Hannah Catherine was my grandmother.  How are you connected to the family?

Cheers

Richard

[roycymru]

Hi Richard and Roy,
Thanks both for such an interesting Chat. I have just joined and this is my first post.
I found Jonathan Rees in 1861 with his married sister Margaret Bowen and older brother John at Llangynwyd, Glamorgan:
1861 Census. At 44 Grove Street Llangynwyd Higher, Llangynwyd Margam Glamorgan with brother-in-law Henry Bowen (31) Blacksmith, sister Margaret (28), their daughter Elizabeth (2) and single brother John Rees (23) Iron Puddler, Jonathan, scholar, aged 10.
Richard, can you confirm that John's daughter Elizabeth, born 1840, married master mariner Daniel Thomas and had children Elizabeth Margaret, Hannah Kate and Cornelius Rees Thomas?
Happy New Year to you both,
Howard

Sorry, hadn’t spotted your reply before. Great find in 1861. It all fits. In 1881 Margaret Bowen (Rees) was at the White Lion Inn, Llanelly (on her own, probably visiting), with her mother. In 1871, in Glamorgan a Hector Rees of Llanelly (1828) was a lodger was staying with Henry and Margaret Bowen. I don’t know where he fits in but I guess he is related to Margaret in some.

This is the 1881 entry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8059/images/CMNRG11_5375_5378-0116?treeid=72019084&personid=222241521605&hintid=&queryId=53dbb04c5285e43e89c8aae0abe5b246&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bSL1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1075971

In 1891 her daughter Catherine Philpott (nee Rees) and family are living there

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6897/images/CMNRG12_4496_4499-0030?pid=286602&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DbSL3%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26dbid%3D6897%26gsfn%3DJohn%26gsln%3DPhillpot%26cp%3D0%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DCatherine%26mssns%3DRees%26mscng%3DThomas%26mscng1%3DDd%20H%26mscng2%3DElizabeth%26mscng3%3DDavid%26mscng4%3DJohn%26mscng5%3DElizabeth%26mscng6%3DMary%20Kate%26msbdy%3D1849%26msbpn__ftp%3Dllanelli,%20carmarthenshire,%20wales,%20united%20kingdom%26msbpn%3D1651522%26msrpn__ftp%3Dllanelli,%20carmarthenshire,%20wales,%20united%20kingdom%26msrpn%3D1651522%26ssrc%3Dpt_t72019084_p222243142098%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dzq3%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26h%3D286602%26indiv%3D1&ssrc=pt_t72019084_p222243142098&treeid=72019084&personid=222243142098&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bSL3&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

Based on this I believe Margaret died 1881-1891 and the most likely match based on age at death is this one

REES, MARGARET       74 
GRO Reference: 1886  J Quarter in LLANELLY  Volume 11A  Page 504

The family seem to take over the running of the White Lion and on UKgenealogy there are images of gravestones (though not of the best quality) at Adulam which mention the White Lion and from which other children of John and Margaret Rees (nee Samuel) can be identified:

Son William was married to an Anne, interestingly in the 1871 census they were living at the White Lion, so it looks like William's mother Margaret took this over from them after William and Ann died. Ann's surname may be Jenkins as the census entry on the following page lists a David and Thomas Jenkins as brothers, but I can't find a marriage of a William Rees and an Anne Jenkins.

William and Anne's surname is wrongly transcribed as Roes on Ancestry.

Son Edward's gravestone is not so clear. He had a daughter Margaretta who dies young in 1871. Another daughter Elizabeth. Edward married a Hannah Samuel.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7618/images/CMNRG10_5468_5471-0093?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c110942e88b22bae5b7c9e7886960cf0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=rPk6155&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=7123846

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7618/images/CMNRG10_5468_5471-0094?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c110942e88b22bae5b7c9e7886960cf0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=rPk6155&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=7123846

[roycymru]

Hi Howard

Yes, according to my records Elizabeth (Rees) was born on 26th April 1839 (not 1840).  She married master mariner Daniel Thomas on 23rd May 1861 (I think it's the 23rd).  Her children were Elizabeth Margaret (3rd March 1866 to 2nd June 1897), Hannah Catherine (Kate) 14th September 1870 to 14th October 1948 and Cornelius Rees 7th February 1872 to 21st March 1940.

Hannah Catherine was my grandmother.  How are you connected to the family?

Cheers

Richard

Not convinced on Elizabeth’s birth date (have you a source for this). My doubt is based on this GRO entry for her from Mar Qtr 1840

REES, ELIZABETH       (mother’s maiden name SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1840  M Quarter in LLANELLY UNION  Volume 26  Page 546

[roycymru]

Hi

Do you have any dates or more info for Daniel Thomas as he doesn’t appear with Elizabeth in the census records. Thanks

[roycymru]

Hi Howard

Yes, according to my records Elizabeth (Rees) was born on 26th April 1839 (not 1840).  She married master mariner Daniel Thomas on 23rd May 1861 (I think it's the 23rd).  Her children were Elizabeth Margaret (3rd March 1866 to 2nd June 1897), Hannah Catherine (Kate) 14th September 1870 to 14th October 1948 and Cornelius Rees 7th February 1872 to 21st March 1940.

Hannah Catherine was my grandmother.  How are you connected to the family?

Cheers

Richard

Not convinced on Elizabeth’s birth date (have you a source for this). My doubt is based on this GRO entry for her from Mar Qtr 1840

REES, ELIZABETH       (mother’s maiden name SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1840  M Quarter in LLANELLY UNION  Volume 26  Page 546

Having looked further there is

REES, ELIZABETH       (SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1839  J Quarter in LLANELLY  Volume 26  Page 560

So whether the Elizabeth Rees born 1840 is a different Elizabeth, or Elizabeth Rees born 1839 died young and the next daughter was also called Elizabeth? You may know more?

[Cyfrifydd]

Hi Roy

I do have Elizabeth Rees's birth cert, and I'll send you some info tomorrow.

For Daniel Thomas in the 1861 census, search for him on a vessel called the 'Sardine' in Swansea docks. I'm speaking from memory as I'm not with my records.

Cheers

Richard

[roycymru]

Hi Roy

I do have Elizabeth Rees's birth cert, and I'll send you some info tomorrow.

For Daniel Thomas in the 1861 census, search for him on a vessel called the 'Sardine' in Swansea docks. I'm speaking from memory as I'm not with my records.

Cheers

Richard

Thanks, look forward to this.

You may know this already?

I think the below is Elizabeth in 1861, living with her Uncle and Aunt Cornelius Rees (1808) and Elizabeth Rees (1822, nee Rees).

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8768/images/CMNRG9_4112_4115-0379?backurl=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ancestry.co.uk%252Ffamily-tree%252Fperson%252Ftree%252F72019084%252Fperson%252F222241820864%252Ffacts%252Fcitation%252F742350155654%252Fedit%252Frecord&pid=13836737

(Note: another niece Ann Samuel age 16 was living with them in 1861)

(Note 2: This might also explain why Elizabeth Thomas, who married Daniel Thomas, named her son Cornelius.

I think this is the marriage of Cornelius in 1841

Dec Qtr
REES    Cornelius        Llanelly    26   795

There are several possible wives mentioned but the only Elizabeth mentioned is Elizabeth Rees.

Cornelius and Elizabeth don’t appear to have had any children.

Note 3: in 1881 Elizabeth Rees (Cornelius’s wife, widow, aunt) is living with Elizabeth (1840) also now a widow.

[roycymru]

Hi

Do you also have the actual marriage record for Elizabeth Rees and Daniel Thomas? If so, could you kindly transcribe the details?