Author Topic: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!  (Read 1656 times)

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 20 October 20 08:26 BST (UK) »
This was what in Scotland was called "an irregular marriage." Prior to 1940, it was not possible to marry in a Registry Office in Scotland.

Irregular marriages were legal in Scotland until 1st July 1940 and could be registered by obtaining a Justice of the Peace's or Sheriff's warrant. These show up in marriage certificates as marriage 'by declaration' or by 'warrant of sheriff substitute'.

From http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/2006-08/1156284811, a further explanation:

There were two types of marriages in Scotland the 'regular' and the 'irregular.' The regular marriage was done by a clergy member of the Church.

An irregular marriage did not require the presence of a clergyman. Irregular marriages were by exchange of promises before witnesses, by betrothal and consummation, or by cohabitation and repute, and were forms of marriage recognised by Scots Law, yet may have taken place without any official record of the event. They remained a lawful form of marriage until the Marriage (Scotland) Act of 1939, which effectively replaced them by register office ceremonies. (Not previously an option in Scotland).

See:

http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/

In a 'warrant of sheriff substitute' a couple would go to the office of the local Sheriff (Sheriff-Substitute) with two witnesses. The form of contract generally adopted was a simple written declaration of acceptance of each other as husband and wife before two witnesses - and that form was
often drawn up by the Sheriff's office. The Sheriff (or his representative) would then issue a "warrant" (certification of the marriage) which the couple would present to the Registrar who would officially record the marriage and issue a certificate.
Elwyn

Offline djct59

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 20 October 20 10:03 BST (UK) »
Elwyn Soutter's explanation might benefit from a little clarification; the sheriff-substitute was the judge for the local area (the term is now simply "sheriff", with the former post of "Sheriff" now held by the Sheriff Principal).

In a 'warrant by sheriff substitute' a couple would go to the local Sheriff Court with two witnesses. Prior to 1916 they had to pay a fine for entering into an irregular marriage, but that was abolished by the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1916. The form of registration was specified in the schedule to the 1916 Act, so all of the information entered into the register had to be provided before application to the sheriff (1916 Act, s.1). The sheriff would then issue a "warrant" (certification of the marriage) which the sheriff clerk (the official who recorded all judicial and administrative decisions) would present to the Registrar within three days (1916 Act, s. 1 (3), who would officially record the marriage and issue a certificate.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 20 October 20 14:56 BST (UK) »
SP has a marriage of Edwin Mcperson Clark to  URQUHART 1948 so presumably 
Straight after Ann Mcnicoll CLARK  nee ROBERTSON died

Have you understood the naming system now ?

McNicoll was a middle name not sn alternative surname

Usually first daughter is named after maternal grandmother first name then grans surname then fathers surname
Second daughter after fathers mother
and third daughter after the mother

So you could predict 3 daughters to be called :
Catherine Robertson CLARK
Sarah Wylie Clark
Ann nicols Clark

First son would be called james clark (some families  repeat surname as middle name)father's father

second son would have wife.s fathers name so duncan mcnicoll, clark

Third son same name as father edwin Clark

My hunch from names youve told me in pm.is

You may find children from a previous marriage & third marriage with first name and surname of those  wives mother might be worth looking for child deaths too.
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 20 October 20 15:14 BST (UK) »
Also you could make an educated guess that Annie mcnicoll  ROBERTSON

Could be named after a grandmother...
First daughter of her mother s mothet
second daughter of duncan ROBERTSON so named after his mother Annie Nicoll or wife if third daughter

Which could take you back another generation

But you have to watch out for births outside marriage which skews predictions

Hope that helps
Ps Edwins death confirms his mother was Sarah WYLIE
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson


Offline kiwihalfpint

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 20 October 20 21:19 BST (UK) »
If you are lucky you might strike a person with two surnames for their middle name, which is a bonus, especially as the certificate can not be ordered.

Cheers
KHP
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Offline Isabel H

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 22 October 20 22:53 BST (UK) »
Maybe:
Witnesses James McKay, 61 Camden Street, Robertson and Christina? McAndrew? 10 (70?) New City Road Glasgow
GRAY - Inveresk; Lanarkshire
LINDSAY - Lanarkshire
PURDIE - Lanarkshire; W. Lothian
POZZI - Elgin; Lancashire
MACKENZIE, MORISON - Stornoway
ARCHIBALD, HAY, HUNTER, SNADDON - Clackmannanshire
COXON, HALL, JACKSON, SHOTTON - Northumberland

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #15 on: Friday 23 October 20 09:40 BST (UK) »
I agree that first witness could be james McKay
Does it say camden street     London ?

Second witness definitely Glasgow  cant see an upstroke for a T it begins with Ch I thought maybe Cherise
Surname looks short Mc_____

Was second witness automatically a woman ?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline Isabel H

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Re: Help reading an old Scottish marriage certificate!
« Reply #16 on: Friday 23 October 20 10:44 BST (UK) »
No city stated, so it will be the Camden St in Glasgow.

Re second witness being a woman, no not automatic, but my reading was that the last two people were a couple at the same address.

GRAY - Inveresk; Lanarkshire
LINDSAY - Lanarkshire
PURDIE - Lanarkshire; W. Lothian
POZZI - Elgin; Lancashire
MACKENZIE, MORISON - Stornoway
ARCHIBALD, HAY, HUNTER, SNADDON - Clackmannanshire
COXON, HALL, JACKSON, SHOTTON - Northumberland