Peter Philp (b. 1838)

[artemis]

Hi all,
This is my first post to rootschat.  I've been researching my Philp ancestors on and off for several years.  I've traced them back to Peter Philp, who is supposed to have been born in Thornton, Fifeshire on August 27, 1838, to James Philp and Catherine Wilson Philp.  (Unfortunately I don't have middle names for any of them.)  His father subsequently died when he was a toddler, and his mother remarried, but I've been unable to find out to whom, though they appear to have stayed in Fifeshire till Peter reached adulthood.  He was the only child of this marriage, though he is supposed to have had several half-siblings from the later marriage. 

He is supposed to have gotten married on June 19, 1866 to Elizabeth Anderson, also of Fifeshire, and daughter of Robert and Margaret Anderson, but I have been so far unable to find any record of their marriage, either, nor any record of these particular Andersons that shows it's definitely the correct Andersons. 

Around 1879, the family left Scotland for America, to Codington County in what was then Dakota Territory.  My great-uncle (the only surviving Philp of his generation) still lives in that county today.  I have also been unable, so far, to trace what ship they took.

If anyone has any relevant information, or any ideas on places for me to look, I'd be very happy to hear either one.  As you may know, James Philp (Peter's father) was unforunately (for me) a very common name in early 1800s Fife.  I know one of Peter's sons was named James David Philp, but am unsure whether Peter's father had the same middle name.

I also got a lot of information on Philps who moved to Scandinavia, from someone who emailed me about a post I made on another board, if anyone is trying to trace that branch and would like me to share what I've got.  Most of these Philps were from St. Andrew's.

Thank you,
Liz

[JAP]

Liz,

I am a little confused that you seem to have all the details of Peter's marriage but you say you have no record of it.

The entry is on the IGI at:
http://www.familysearch.org

It lists Peter PHILP m Elizabeth ANDERSON on 19 Jun 1866 at Kirkcaldy, Fife.

If you go to the fee-paying site ScotlandsPeople (charges are reasonable) at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
you will be able to download a copy of the marriage certificate.  With luck, it might list his mother's re-married surname.

If they did not leave Scotland until 1879, you should be able to find them in the 1871 census which is online at ScotlandsPeople.

The birth you cite is also in the IGI:
Peter PHILP, born 27 Aug 1838, bap 2 Sep 1838 at Markinch, Fife, parents James PHILP and Catherin WILSON.
Statutory registration was not introduced until 1855 in Scotland so you will not be able to get a certificate of the birth.  The details in the IGI will have been taken from a church register - these are not yet available for download on SP and, in any case, they often contain no further information.

A possible marriage for James and Catherine is also on the IGI.
James PHILP m Catherine WILSON, 7 Nov 1834, Scoonie Fife
James PHILP m Catherine WILSON, 8 Nov 1834, Markinch Fife
This might not be the correct marriage but, if it is, the two entries probably represent the Banns being called in both the bride's and the groom's parishes.

As Peter was born in 1838, the earlier censuses - 1841, 1851, and 1861 - might show Peter with his mother and thus reveal her re-married name and the names of half-siblings.

These censuses are not yet available on ScotlandsPeople.  However, I understand that a member of the RootsWeb Fife list does assist people with lookups of the Fife 1841 census (and, while PHILP is a very common Fife name, Peter PHILP is not so common).  You might wish to look at the Fife List at:
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/SCT-FIFE.html

Good luck,

JAP

[JAP]

PS:
The IGI also has records of two children to Peter PHILP and Elizabeth ANDERSON:
Margaret Deas PHILP, b 26 Aug 1867 in Kirkcaldy, Fife
Catherine Wilson PHILP, b 13 Jun 1869 in Kirkcaldy, Fife

The forename of Margaret for their first daughter suggests that Margaret is Elizabeth's mother's name (if they followed Scottish naming patterns); the middle name of Deas suggests that this might be her mother's maiden surname (especially as their second daughter is named Catherine Wilson after Peter's mother).

So a possibility for Elizabeth is:
Elizabeth ANDERSON, b 30 Oct 1838, Dysart Fife, parents Robert ANDERSON and Margaret DEAS.
Elizabeth's age on the marriage certificate will help to determine whether this is the correct Elizabeth.

JAP
PPS: Thornton was a village in the parish of Markinch.  Genuki is a good site for information:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/parishes/Markinch/

[JAP]

And more.

Peter PHILP and Elizabeth ANDERSON seem to have moved from Kirkcaldy, Fife to Glasgow, Lanarkshire.
James David PHILP, b 18 Oct 1871, High Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Robert PHILP, b 26 Jun 1874, High Church, Glasgow, Lanarkshire

There may have been further children born in Scotland - the IGI stopped its Scottish controlled extraction program at 1875.  So it will be worthwhile searching for further children on ScotlandsPeople.

In the 1871 census, if you don't find them in Fife, you had better try Lanarkshire.

Regards,

JAP

[artemis]

hi,
Thanks for all the details!

I found the marriage info here:  http://www.electricscotland.com/history/world/bios/philp_peter.htm

That page was added to the web after I'd already done most of the work myself  .  I hadn't had the exact dates, and since Thornton is misspelled on the page, I was not sure they were accurate either.

Thanks again! 

[welch41]

Hi Liz,
Could this be your Elizabeth?-
1851 census for Dysart Fife-
Robert Anderson 39 born Oxfordshire
Margaret  38 born Dysart

John 16 born Sinclairtown
Margaret 14 "     "
ELIZABETH 12 "     "
Jean 10 "     "
James 8 "    "
Robert 5 "    "
Eiphemia 3    "    "
David   10 months "   "

Hope this helps
Marilyn

[artemis]

Thanks, Marilyn!  From what I've found since last posting, it sounds like the right Andersons.

I also found Catherine Wilson Philp's second marriage, to David Pearson in 1850; they lived on a farm in Ceres.  I found it by tracing her death record, which listed her maiden name, both her marriages, and her parents' names.  They got married in Markinch.  They moved to Edinburgh (Canongate) when they retired from farming.

I also found a first marriage for Peter Philp that no one still living in the family knew about, to Janet Elder; his first child, Alison Janet Philp, was Janet's, but Janet died less than a month after giving birth.  Sadly, he registered Alison's birth the day Janet died,  presumably since he was already there to report the latter.

[JAP]

Liz/artemis,

What a fascinating story on ElectricScotland (a site with an incredible amount of information for anyone with Scots ancestry).

And I'm sure you will praise ScotlandsPeople, the whole Scots record-keeping system and the wonderful information on Scots BDM certificates, and also the Scots practice of women not losing their birth names when they married.

Hope you can trace the families further back.  Another good source is to be found in Wills - also on ScotlandsPeople.  Also the Fife Family History Society has a good searchable website at:
http://www.fifefhs.org/

And don't forget that, while the name usually appears as PHILP in Fife, it also has spelling variants there; and once you leave Fife it appears - often quite randomly - as PHILP, PHILIP, PHILLIP, PHILIPS, PHILLIPS, etc.  I've seen them all.

Good luck,

JAP
(the P = PHILIP and it was PHILP in Fife and almost anything subsequently)