Family Mystery: Looking for information on COLLINS family Greenock 1870s-1880s

[KeithMcNulty]

Hello,  I am seeking to delve deeper into a family mystery.  My great great grandfather was Denis (Dennis) COLLINS who lived with his wife Margaret (nee McMahon/McMann/McMachon) in Greenock - they had four daughters Eliza, Mary Ellen, Alice and Matilda as of the 1881 census at 2 East Blackhall St, Greenock.

Margaret died suddenly on 4th January 1884, and by May 1884 Denis had moved to Waterford, Ireland and had married a much younger woman and started a second family.  There is no indication in the records that any of his daughters came with him.   I want to try to find out more about these daughters and what happened to them, but for some of them I can't seem to find any records at all:

Eliza - she married William Williamson on 7th July 1881 at St John's Greenock.  He was living with the Collins family during the 1881 census and is indicated in that census as being from Ireland.  After this point, I can find no further record of this couple or any children they may have had.

Mary Ellen - she was present at the wedding of Eliza and William and signed as a witness.  However I can find no record of her after this point.

Alice - I found Alice in Smyllum Orphanage in the 1891 census and I found a death record for her, still at Smyllum in 1895 which confirms her parents identities as Denis and Margaret (her father is marked as deceased but this is false).

Matilda - I find no record for her after the 1881 census.

I am particularly interested if finding out anything about Eliza Williamson (nee Collins), Mary Ellen Collins or Matilda Collins and I am hoping someone might be interested in helping me crack this and can offer some inspiration?

Many thanks! 

[CaroleW]

Birthyears/Birthplaces needed for tracing purposes

1881 shows as follows
Eliza  20 (1861) b Mauritius??
Mary Ellen  14 (1867) b England
Matilda  5 (1876) Greenock

[KeithMcNulty]

Many thanks for the quick response. 

Eliza was indeed born in Mauritius - Denis was serving with the British Army at the time there and his wife was with him.  c1860 is the most information I have here.  She is listed as 21 in her marriage certificate dated 7th July 1881.

Mary Ellen I believe was possibly born in Lancashire c1867.  Denis was discharged from the Army around this time and his papers say he was intending to live in Preston.  However I have not found a record for Mary Ellen's birth.

Matilda Collins was born on 24/10/1875 at 6 Spring Hill St Greenock.

Hope this helps!

[CaroleW]

Matilda - I find no record for her after the 1881 census

On your tree on Ancestry you show Matilda in Glasgow in 1891 aged 17.  That Matilda is shown as b Glasgow but there is no birth on SP for any other Matilda Collins between 1873-1876

A Matilda Collins married a William C Murray in 1911 - have you checked that marriage

[KeithMcNulty]

The entry in the ancestry tree is a placeholder for further investigation, but now I am convinced it is not my Matilda, precisely because of your point about her place of birth.

I have checked the Collins-Murray marriage and it's not her.

I have also considered it possible that she was put in Smyllum alongside her sister but find no records.   I contacted the archivist for the religious order some years back and all records prior to 1910 or so have been lost I am told.  That is not to say that she did not die there and went unrecorded, but I am hoping that's not the case.

[KeithMcNulty]

Its a fair point you make that there is no other birth of a Matilda Collins, which is why I have kept the placeholder there.  But I cant find a marriage or death for her, so tracing this individual has been difficult.

[brigidmac]

Just in case you havent tried already
Searchimg for Matilda under Tillie or Tilly might throw up something .

[Forfarian]

Could this be Mary Ellen's birth? Mary Collins, mother McManus, born Liverpool, 1866, March quarter, Vol 8b, page 54.

On the other hand the 1871 census (from a transcription) lists Dennis, 40, born Ireland; Margaret, 32, born Greenock; Eliza S, 10, born Ireland; Mary E, 4, born Mauritius.

Is Denis the 22-year-old private in the 95th Regiment, born Cork, Dunaway in the 1851 census in Portsea, Hampshire?

[Forfarian]

Eliza - she married William Williamson on 7th July 1881 at St John's Greenock.  He was living with the Collins family during the 1881 census and is indicated in that census as being from Ireland.  After this point, I can find no further record of this couple or any children they may have had

William Williamson and Eliza Collins had
Alexander, born 22 May 1899, Belfast
Andrew, 8 November 1900, Belfast

1901 census lists at Kenbaan Street, Co Down
William Williamson, 47, engineer; Eliza, 40; Mary Ellan, 14; William, 12; Bella, 7; Andrew, 6 months; all (allegedly) born Belfast.

You can check these out, and look for the births of the older children, at https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ and http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Denis died in Waterford on 20 July 1912.

You might even find the missing sisters there yet.