Look up Charles Winter, Leeds

[Elaine01]

I would appreciate getting more information on the birth of Charles Winter.   

The following is the information that I know so far:

1. Middle name might be “Leo”
2. Born January, 1902 in Leeds, Yorkshire. 
3. Mother’s name is Mary Winter nee Hughes.  She was born in Ireland.
4. Mary is married to Thomas Winter but I don’t think he is the father.   They have eight children.

I have ordered the Death Certificate.   I was wondering if the certificate states the cause of death. 

Thank you for any information.   I am trying to determine who is father is and whether Mary is actually his mother. 

Elaine

[carol8353]

Hello and welcome to Rootschat.

Here is the birth info.You should be able to find him on the 1911 census.

WINTER, CHARLES  LEO     mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1902  M Quarter in LEEDS  Volume 09B  Page 493

[Elaine01]

Thank so much for the information.   Do you know if the father’s has been left blank?

Elaine

[heywood]

Welcome to Rootschat, Elaine.

Did Charles marry? If so, did he name a father on the certificate?
His birth certificate should show his father’s name. He was registered, it seems, with Mary as his mother (with maiden name Hughes).
Why do you think Thomas is not his father?
Did Mary and Thomas split up?

[Elaine01]

Hi

Charles did get married.   I didn’t think of looking at his Marriage Certificate.  Thank you for that suggestion.

In the 1911 Census, Thomas isn’t living at the house with Mary. Mary is shown as Head of the household but as still married.  She is living with Charles who is noted as her son, together with some of her other adult children and her widowed mother, Annie.   It is noted that she had 8 children, but only 7 survived.   But, if you include Charles, she actually had 9 children.   She would have had Charles when she was in her early 40’s.   But the interesting thing is I found Thomas who was living with one of the married sons and his wife and he was listed as married.   

I wonder if Charles was not Mary’s son, but one of her daughters or whether she became pregnant by another man and they separated.   They were devout Catholics and perhaps that is the reason they did not divorce. But, I can’t imagine her lying on the birth certificate. 

Sorry to be long winded. 

Elaine

[Jamjar]

Welcome to Rootschat.

For reference, 1901, 1911:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9RW-MTQ

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWV3-1TT

Father in 1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW53-YPT

They are at a variety of residences in 1891. 

Why do you assume that mother and father are separated because they are not at the same address on census night?

Mary would have been 41 at time I’d Charles’ birth. It’s possible.

Jamjar

[Carybeth]

You'd be surprised at how much dishonesty was about back then relating to recording of information.

[Elaine01]

Yes partly because of the Census.  I realize Thomas could have been visiting his son, but why was Mary listed as Head of the household.

And in Ancestry I found two FamilyTrees that show Charles as being a half brother of the other siblings.   So I have to assume that Thomas was not the father.  But, that is why I wanted to confirm that Thomas was not listed as the father in the birth certificate.

And why does it show in the Census that Mary had 8 children but in reality she would have had 9 if you included Charles..

Thank you for the link to Family Search. 

And thank you for your help. 


Elaine

[Jamjar]

Sep 1880 Leeds 9b 666
WINTER Thomas
HUGHES Mary

1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27R-LC5M

WINTER, VINCENT  AUSTIN mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1882  M Quarter in HUDDERSFIELD  Volume 09A  Page 342
Married: Mar 1906 Pancras 1b 137
WINTER Vincent Austin
BERRY Alice Tooke

WINTER, FRANCIS mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1883  D Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION  Volume 09C  Page 161

WINTER, AGNES  MARY mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1885  J Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION  Volume 09C  Page 213

WINTER, GERTRUDE  JOSEPHINE mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1887  J Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION  Volume 09C  Page 209

WINTER, THOMAS  ARTHUR mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1889  D Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 656

WINTER, JOSEPH  ALOYSIUS mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1892  D Quarter in LEEDS  Volume 09B  Page 525

WINTER, WILFRED  ANTHONY mmn HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1893  D Quarter in LEEDS  Volume 09B  Page 527

1902: Charles

Who is missing?

Jamjar