Author Topic: a young mother?  (Read 701 times)

Offline Eidde

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • (no relation)
    • View Profile
a young mother?
« on: Saturday 18 July 20 15:57 BST (UK) »
I'd like Rootschatters' opinions on the following:

Andrew Boyd and Janet Bryson had 6 children (according to SP) - b. 1795, 1803, 1806, 1807, 1810 & 1815.
They married in Nov 1802 in Paisley, Scotland.
The only Janet Bryson that I can find in the area around the time was born in 1783.
Andrew Boyd II (the first child, b. 1795) had the annotation NS (natural son) on his birth/baptism record.

I realise that there may have been other Boyds and Brysons around whose records may not have survived, but if I had the right ones, that meant the mother was around 12 when Andrew II was born. At first I thought this unlikely, but then I noted that the second child was born in 1803. This delay fits with the idea that Janet Bryson was indeed very young when Andrew II was born, and that the parents had to wait a number of years before they could marry.
Any thoughts?
Eddie

Offline robesur

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 July 20 16:15 BST (UK) »
What you say seems logical, but are you sure that you have a date of birth of 1783. this could have been a date of baptism and depending on her family or religion she could have been a few years old at the time.

Offline Eidde

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • (no relation)
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 July 20 16:26 BST (UK) »
Hi robesur
I see your point, but the record actually shows both birth and baptism date just a few days apart.

Offline Annie65115

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,255
  • HOLYLAND regd with guild of one name studies
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 18 July 20 16:52 BST (UK) »
Does the record state both parents for Andrew Boyd (jnr)? Natural son would suggest that he was illegitimate, as I'm sure you already know and as would fit with the marriage dates, but would he then have the Boyd surname?

Prior to 1929, the minimum age for marriage in Scotland was 12 for girls and 14 for boys, and parental consent wasn't needed. So that wouldn't have been a reason to hold off on getting wed.

Biologically, it's not impossible for a 12 years old to carry and deliver a child but it's unusual, and not just because most 12 year olds aren't sexually active. The age of menarche, or first period, before which a girl wouldn't/couldn't get pregnant, is around 12+1/2 years currently; it has been later in the past. It is linked to nutritional levels (and other environmental factors).

Factor in too the putative dad's age. Was he of an age in 1795 when he could likely have fathered a child?

None of which is to say that Janet Bryson would/could not have had a child when she was 12, but it's fairly unlikely.
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)


Offline ThrelfallYorky

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,672
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 18 July 20 17:10 BST (UK) »
Apparently even in our times several girls each school year give birth whilst still at Junior School, sadly, so it's physically quite possible, even  if usually not at all a good idea.
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline DianaCanada

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,099
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 19 July 20 00:47 BST (UK) »
From what I’ve read, even in the Victorian age, girls generally did not begin to menstruate until they were 15 or 16, and the ability to carry a child to term would be dependent on the girl’s overall health. Girls today mature much earlier, even earlier than 50 or 60 years ago.
I think it is highly unlikely.  Looking at unmarried mothers in the past, most of them were over 17.

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,276
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 19 July 20 02:43 BST (UK) »
I agree with Diana and Annie that Janet is unlikely to have had a child when she was 12.

Have you checked for other spellings of her surname in case there are other Janet Brysons? Bryceson comes to mind but there may be others.

The first name Janet also has several variations in Scotland. Another thought .... might your Janet have come from somewhere further afield?
 
Did Janet die after 1855? Do you have her death certificate and were her parents named on it?

The parents of the 1783 Janet .... did your Janet and Andrew give their own children either of these names? Difficult to determine with common names though.  :)


Offline Eidde

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • (no relation)
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 19 July 20 08:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all your tips and suggestions. The record of Andrew jr's birth has the names of both parents, which suggests that Andrew sr 'stood by' her and accounts for Andrew jr taking the Boyd name. As Annie 65115 points out, there was no legal reason to prevent a marriage at her age, but why wait 7 years after your first child is born to get married?

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to trace a record of Andrew sr's birth yet, at least not in the local area, so I don't know his age when Andrew jr was conceived. Similarly, I haven't been able to find death records for Andrew sr or Janet.

I've tried some variations on both names, but nothing conclusive has emerged; I've restricted myself to Paisley so far, but I acknowledge it makes sense to search a little further afield. An older Janet could well have come from somewhere else at some stage, but the marriage record says 'both in this parish', which is all I have to suggest that she was local.

Janet's parents were (I think) John Bryson and Janet Thomson; my Janet had 6 children - the boys were Andrew and William, and the oldest girl was (yet another) Janet.So, the name Janet was passed on to the next generation, but not John.

Once again, thanks for your interest.
Eddie

Offline oldfashionedgirl

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: a young mother?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 19 July 20 12:50 BST (UK) »
Have you looked for her under Jane ? the names were interchangeable