Can we erase the past .... or should we learn from it ?

[Mike in Cumbria]

I'm not a Latin expert but I  expect it followed the same rules as its Romance descendants - soft G's and C's after i or e, hard G's and C's after anything else.

[arthurk]

I'm not a Latin expert but I  expect it followed the same rules as its Romance descendants - soft G's and C's after i or e, hard G's and C's after anything else.

In French it's determined by the vowel following the 'g' or 'c', not the one before. I don't know about other Romance languages.

"'g' was always hard (as in 'gate')"

Uh huh, right.  How do you pronounce Geranium?  Genus?

In English, with a soft 'g' (like 'j'). But in classical Latin (as I was taught it), with a hard 'g'.

This confusion extends to bird seed: it's possible that the increase in numbers of goldfinches in the UK is a result of people putting out a particular kind of seed. Traditionally this was called Niger Seed (it's black), which would normally have been pronounced with a soft 'g'. Now it's often sold as Nyjer Seed - such an ugly and incorrect word that I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy it.

[Mike in Cumbria]

In French it's determined by the vowel following the 'g' or 'c', not the one before. I don't know about other Romance languages.

Sorry yes - I mistyped - it depends on the following vowel. The same rule goes for the other Romance languages.

[Erato]

In Spanish, the pronunciation of 'g' depends on the letter that follows it:  hard 'g' if it is followed by a consonant or by an 'a,' 'o' or 'u;' soft 'g'  if it is followed by 'e' or 'i.'  The soft 'g' is somewhat like English 'h.'

Guatemala
Argentina = Ar[h]entina

[Rena]

Uh huh, right.  How do you pronounce Geranium?  Genus?

Not the same as the Welsh given name of Geraint:-

Historically Geraint was the King of Dumonia from the 7th to 8th century, as Sir Geraint in the Arthurian legend as well as Welsh folk tales such as “Geraint and Enid.” He was a brave warrior and king who was one of the “Three Seafarers of the Isle of Britain,” though there is some debate as to whether he existed

[Henry7]

So - is it only the English version that is perceived to be "offensive"?  What about the similar word in other languages?  And just when did all this start?

When I was a little lad, 80+ years ago in Lancashire, I had a cast-iron bank for saving odd coins.  It was the head and shoulders of a black man with a very cheery smile.  When you put a penny into his outstretched palm, then pushed a little lever, his hand went up to his mouth and he swallowed the coin.  Great fun! 

On the back, the name in raised letters: "Jolly N****r Bank".  These banks were quite popular among kids at the time.

Did such things give us silly ideas about black people?  Absolutely not.   

[Henry7]

So - is it only the English version that is perceived to be "offensive"?  What about the similar word in other languages?  And just when did all this start?

When I was a little lad, 80+ years ago in Lancashire, I had a cast-iron bank for saving odd coins.  It was the head and shoulders of a black man with a very cheery smile.  When you put a penny into his outstretched palm, then pushed a little lever, his hand went up to his mouth and he swallowed the coin.  Great fun! 

On the back, the name in raised letters: "Jolly N****r Bank".  These banks were quite popular among kids at the time.

Did such things give us silly ideas about black people?  Absolutely not.   

[Mike in Cumbria]

So - is it only the English version that is perceived to be "offensive"?  What about the similar word in other languages?  And just when did all this start?

When did it start? I assume that is a rhetorical question but if not, it started on the slave plantations of America when that term was used as a deliberately de-humanising racial epithet.


When I was a little lad, 80+ years ago in Lancashire, I had a cast-iron bank for saving odd coins.  It was the head and shoulders of a black man with a very cheery smile.  When you put a penny into his outstretched palm, then pushed a little lever, his hand went up to his mouth and he swallowed the coin.  Great fun! 

On the back, the name in raised letters: "Jolly N****r Bank".  These banks were quite popular among kids at the time.

Did such things give us silly ideas about black people?  Absolutely not.

It perpetuated a racist myth of the simple jolly slave. It was a stereotype. That seems like a silly idea about black people to me.
Stuff like that was of its time, but thankfully times have changed, as has what is deemed acceptable.

[Erato]

"So - is it only the English version"

I can assure you that there are ugly and demeaning racial, ethnic and religious epithets in other languages, probably in all languages.