Author Topic: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?  (Read 2646 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #18 on: Friday 19 June 20 20:44 BST (UK) »
My Catholic families in 18thC. Lancashire seemed to use traditional naming pattern - eldest children after grandparents, 3rd son and daughter after parents, subsequent offspring after uncles & aunts. John, Richard, Thomas, William, Ellen, Elizabeth, Jane (Jinny), Mary, and Ann (Nancy) were top names among my ancestors. Agnes, Grace, Isabella and Margaret also occurred several times in my families and in families in their Catholic circles, some of whom may have been relatives.  As small, sometimes disadvantaged communities, living in a small town or rural areas, and consequently with a limited pool of marriage partners, there was evidence of endogamy (marrying within the tribe). This further reduced variety of forenames (and surnames). One set of parents, who were cousins to some degree, produced so many sons that they ran out of family names and called son number 8 Frederick after a member of the family of the lord of the manor, who were also R.C.
Theresa was used by a Catholic family in one community. That's a name which seems to have come from outside. (St. Theresa of Avilla? Empress Maria Theresa? Name of an ancestor or benefactor?)
One of my Lancs. R.C. families had a relative named Ferdinando. His mother was from Co. Durham and belonged to a family which contained a Ferdinando in most generations. I hoped to find a marriage between a Ferdinando and an Isabella but no happy pairing existed.
1767 Return of Papists is the best source for 18th C., as Clayton Bradley has said. My Agnes was on it aged 2, as was her future husband, aged 8. An earlier Agnes was on a Return from 1680s, with Isabella and Dorothy.
Some registers of R.C. missions in Lancashire  survive from 2nd half of 18th century. Very few kept before then.
Catholics appeared in C. of E. registers. Marriage of course; every couple had to marry in a C. of E. ceremony after 1754. Also burials, as most people were buried in the parish churchyard. There may be a note in the burial register indicating or giving a clue that the person was Catholic or there might not. (Burial of a 5x GGM 1783 was noted "Papist" but that of a 5x GGF 1780 in same churchyard was not. Both were on 1767 Return of Papists.)  Catholic babies may be in Anglican baptism registers when there was a tax on births or at other times when Anglican clergy were keeping records of R.C. families in their parish. Some curates kept a separate list of babies born to Catholic families, some included them in the baptism register. It's not clear in some registers which were R.C. and were actually records of birth rather than baptisms.
My Catholic ancestors in Lancashire, increased by Irish in last third of 19th century, retained traditional naming traditions for most of the century. The first identifiable "Catholic" name was Aloysius as a middle name in 1890s. Saints' names didn't catch on in my family until 20th century.   
 
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #19 on: Friday 19 June 20 21:11 BST (UK) »
Hmm, is Francis a "Catholic name?"  Is there any such thing as a Catholic name?  What about Francis Drake and Francis Bacon?

Also from same era, Francis Walsingham, Queen Elizabeth's "spymaster" and definitely not liked by Catholics. He was born at the time of the  English Reformation. Francis Drake was a few years younger. Francis Bacon was born 1561.
Francis of Assisi was canonised 300 years before the English Reformation- plenty of time for the name to become established in England.
Francis de Sales (1567-1622) is a Catholic saint of the post-Reformation era.
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Offline cafetiere

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 20 June 20 14:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks all for more replies. I remember a relative mentioning recusants once (and I didn't know what they meant then) so that's what has made me curious and then idly thinking if names would hint at anything.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 20 June 20 14:31 BST (UK) »


Offline M_ONeill

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 20 June 20 17:28 BST (UK) »
I have a fair few Smallman ancestors in the Shropshire part of my tree and I've read that a great number of that family were apparently noted recusants. I've not found any in my tree yet - but given they're almost entirely state-mandated Anglican records, it makes you wonder how you would know.  ;D

Offline coombs

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 20 June 20 18:23 BST (UK) »
I have a Paul Copeland in Co Durham born c1610, my ancestor. Paul was a Catholic name. Also I have several Michael's in the Sunningwell areas of Berkshire, and a Paul West of the 1500s is a possible ancestor. More Catholic names. Although may be they simply liked the names or had Catholic friends.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 20 June 20 20:13 BST (UK) »
Also I have several Michael's in the Sunningwell areas of Berkshire

The Michaelmas Feast was replaced by Harvest Festival. Catholics don't celebrate Harvest Festival.
St. Michael had 2 feast days, May and September.
"The Cult of Saint Michael the Archangel in Anglo-Saxon England" by Richard Freeman Johnson
"Saint Michael the Archangel in Medieval Legend" by Richard Freeman Johnson
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Offline Joney

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 24 June 20 14:07 BST (UK) »
All the names people regard as Catholic, are simply saints' names as far as I am concerned. My husband's determinedly C of E family are already using Francis in Northumberland in the early 19th century and all the family boys' names turn up again and again in every generation, until at least the 20th century.  What may not be generally known is that the names of any admirable Old Testament figures were candidates for use in Catholic Ireland  in the 19th century. My cousin comes from an Irish family where Jeremiah turns up regularly until post 1900. It was his father's name too. I have an Irish Catholic ancestor whose name is recorded as 'Judie', presumably short for Judith. 'Tom' was another abbreviated form favoured by this particular priest. My own grandmother, born in Liverpool in 1882, was baptised Esther in the local Catholic church.

I always thought that other denominations used Old Testament names, not Catholics. I suppose I got that from Thomas Hardy's 'Far from the Madding Crowd', which I was forced to read  for 'O' Level. The name Hezekiah stands out in my memory ! I have just looked him up and he was one of the kings of Israel. 
Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton

Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: 'Catholic' first names - are they good indicators of Catholic ancestors?
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 24 June 20 14:52 BST (UK) »
All the names people regard as Catholic, are simply saints' names as far as I am concerned. My husband's determinedly C of E family are already using Francis in Northumberland in the early 19th century and all the family boys' names turn up again and again in every generation, until at least the 20th century.  What may not be generally known is that the names of any admirable Old Testament figures were candidates for use in Catholic Ireland  in the 19th century. My cousin comes from an Irish family where Jeremiah turns up regularly until post 1900. It was his father's name too. I have an Irish Catholic ancestor whose name is recorded as 'Judie', presumably short for Judith. 'Tom' was another abbreviated form favoured by this particular priest. My own grandmother, born in Liverpool in 1882, was baptised Esther in the local Catholic church.

I always thought that other denominations used Old Testament names, not Catholics. I suppose I got that from Thomas Hardy's 'Far from the Madding Crowd', which I was forced to read  for 'O' Level. The name Hezekiah stands out in my memory ! I have just looked him up and he was one of the kings of Israel.
It becomes a bit more complicated with Irish first names, as many are replacements for Irish gaelic names which were not allowed to be written in the registers. For example, Jeremiah was often what was written in registers for males who were called Dermot in everyday life. Judy/Judith, or Johanna was used for Siobhan.

https://www.libraryireland.com/names/men/diarmaid-dermod.php

https://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/siobhan-joan.php