Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.

[Oxtonite62]

In 1901 my grandmother aged 10 was in the Salvation Army shelter in Whitechapel (and pretty much in and out of there on a regular basis) with her mother Eliza Jones and her half sibling Bridget Jones age 3 who was actually registered at birth as Bridget Barrett (Father William)....another mystery.  Maybe Alfred couldn’t risk using his real name in 1901 due to his first family living in dire poverty!

That's useful. I'd come across a Sarah, daughter of ELiza, the right age and location in workhouse admissions, sometimes with sibling Bridget, but with father William. This now makes sense.

Eliza Jones said her husband was a soldier in South Africa in 1902. I presume she's referring to William Barrett's whereabouts?

Hi Mabel

Thank you for your reply.  Yes, I have a copy of Bridget’s birth certificate and the father is stated as William Barrett, however just to add to the confusion...on the marriage certificate of her son Thomas Patrick Jones he states his father is William Jones.

I believe Eliza had 5 children and they were all raised using the Jones surname.  Between Thomas Patrick’s granddaughter and myself & some dna thrown into the mix we’ve come to the conclusion that only my grandmother was a Jones and the other children were Barretts. We think maybe Eliza didn’t want to appear to the outside world as being a ‘fallen’ woman as I believe in those days, women in that situation weren’t looked upon very favourably! Which may be the reason why she used the name Jones for all her children.

If I had the motivation I could write a very interesting novel about my paternal family!

Linda

[Oxtonite62]

You're doing brilliantly well, can you fit an Ellen Jones in somewhere?

Found Ellen Ives on the 1901 Census - Piece 317, folio 7, page no.16, Shadwell with Rebecca Turner, Frank Turner & Frederick Turner - Turners transcribed as Tarner.  Ellen is a boarder - looks like her surname is actually Ives.

Linda

[Jomot]

Francis Turner, a Waterman,  married Charlotte Chapman, 3 March 1847, St Dunstan Stepney
Fathers were James Turner, Barge Builder, and Robert Chapman, Carman
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSFC-M6NP?i=202

Haven't found Charlotte before then.

In 1841 the family is at Turners Buildings, St George in the East
Robert Chapman 42 Carman? No
Martha 41 No
Charlotte 15 Yes
Sarah 10 Yes
Mary 5 Yes

1851 Raymonds Place, Saint George in the East
Robert Chapman 60 Labourer b Woodbridge, Suffolk
Martha 59 wife b Rotherhithe, Surrey
Sarah 19 daur b Rotherhithe, Surrey
Mary 15 daur b Whitechapel, Middx

Marriage 27 May 1855, St Thomas, Stepney
Charles Yems f/a Bachelor, Stepney, father William Yems
Mary Chapman f/a Spinster, Stepney, father Robert Chapman
Wits: CA Bocking & Eleanor Hooper

1861, 1 Hampton Court, St George in the East (transcribed as 1 Churches Gardens on FindMyPast)
Charles Yems (Yanes on FindMyPast) 27 General Dealer b Shadwell
Mary 25 wife b St George in the East
Mary 5 daur b St George in the East
Robert 3m son b St George in the East

Mary Sr died in 1868

[Oxtonite62]

Francis Turner, a Waterman,  married Charlotte Chapman, 3 March 1847, St Dunstan Stepney
Fathers were James Turner, Barge Builder, and Robert Chapman, Carman
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSFC-M6NP?i=202

Haven't found Charlotte before then.

In 1841 the family is at Turners Buildings, St George in the East
Robert Chapman 42 Carman? No
Martha 41 No
Charlotte 15 Yes
Sarah 10 Yes
Mary 5 Yes

1851 Raymonds Place, Saint George in the East
Robert Chapman 60 Labourer b Woodbridge, Suffolk
Martha 59 wife b Rotherhithe, Surrey
Sarah 19 daur b Rotherhithe, Surrey
Mary 15 daur b Whitechapel, Middx

Marriage 27 May 1855, St Thomas, Stepney
Charles Yems f/a Bachelor, Stepney, father William Yems
Mary Chapman f/a Spinster, Stepney, father Robert Chapman
Wits: CA Bocking & Eleanor Hooper

1861, 1 Hampton Court, St George in the East (transcribed as 1 Churches Gardens on FindMyPast)
Charles Yems (Yanes on FindMyPast) 27 General Dealer b Shadwell
Mary 25 wife b St George in the East
Mary 5 daur b St George in the East
Robert 3m son b St George in the East

Mary Sr died in 1868

Hi Jomot

Thank you for this info. On my initial post on this this thread, the attachment I uploaded for Alfred’s first marriage to my great grandmother, one of the witnesses was a John...looked like Welles or Wems but could be Yems.

I found the marriage for Charles Yems & Mary Chapman on Ancestry - surname transcribed as Years. Yems such an unusual name..wonder where that came from?

I’ll need to start doing some work on my tree on Ancestry starting with Alfred’s parents, Henry & Sarah & his siblings, to get a better picture of where everyone fits in and hopefully one day it may turn up more info on the elusive Alfred!

Thanks again for all your help.

Linda

[brigidmac]

Fascinating  topic    ..great research

 would Eliza have to register her children as Jones of she couldn't officially marry to William Barrett ?
Maybe he had his own reasons to pass himself off as William JONES.
Do you have any other records for ,, Williaim ?

I expect the children didn't know his true surname
And Sarah Ann wouldn't have known about her half siblings
From bigamist father.....has that been proved yet. ?
Which childrwn of Albert + Annie is your DNA linked to?

[Oxtonite62]

Fascinating  topic    ..great research

 would Eliza have to register her children as Jones of she couldn't officially marry to William Barrett ?
Maybe he had his own reasons to pass himself off as William JONES.
Do you have any other records for ,, Williaim ?

I expect the children didn't know his true surname
And Sarah Ann wouldn't have known about her half siblings
From bigamist father.....has that been proved yet. ?
Which childrwn of Albert + Annie is your DNA linked to?

Thank you for your interest Brigidmac...yes I was hoping this topic would generate interest on here and it certainly did. I’m just in the process of piecing it all together as the info I received has been so very helpful & plentiful.

I’m not sure about your first question but definitely Bridget was registered as Barrett. I believe Thomas Patrick was registered as Jones which is strange because Bridget was born before Thomas Patrick. I’m not sure if he did pass himself off as William Jones or whether it was Eliza that did that. I don’t have any other records for a William Barrett/Jones. Of course, there could have been a William Jones & a William Barrett!  My elderly aunt (Sarah Ann’s daughter) remembers the name Barrett when she was a young child.

No, my grandmother Sarah Ann would not have known about her half siblings through Alfred’s new family. However she was very close to her half siblings Bridget and Thomas Patrick. I believe there were two other boys born to Eliza - a William & George but we’re not quite sure whether they lived to adulthood.

My DNA matches (a mother & her son) are linked to me, my late paternal uncle & a paternal 1C1R, through Alfred and Annie’s daughter Rebecca Annie.

I haven’t actually proved that Alfred was a bigamist but the evidence is pretty convincing with the paper trail from his marriage to Eliza and the DNA matches through his daughter from his second marriage. I don’t believe they would have been in a position to divorce as they lived in very poor circumstances.

Linda

[Oxtonite62]

I'm not sure if this is connected, but looking for births of Alfred Jones c1869 turns up this one:

JONES, ALFRED mmn CHAPMAN 
GRO Reference: 1868  D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST  Volume 01C  Page 449

St George in the East Workhouse register of births:
7 Nov 1868 Alfred Jones, Mother: Sarah Jones. Legitimate

Sarah Jones b 1832 admitted to St George Workhouse 7 Nov 1868 in labour.  Discharged with Alfred 28 Nov 1868.

Other Jones children registered with the mmn Chapman in St George in the East include Francis Robert in 1862, and his baptism on 4 May 1862 at St Mary Stepney gives his parents as Henry & Sarah Jones, Labourer, of Lower Well Alley, St George

ADDED:
Possibly them in 1861 at 8 Duke Street, St George in the East
Henry Jones 31 Dock Labourer b St George, Middx
Sarah Jones 30 wife Tailoress b Wimbledon (?) Surrey

Hi

I've now received the birth certificate for Alfred Jones mmn Chapman as kindly suggested by Jomot and the mother's name is recorded as Sarah Chapman, so I'm pretty certain it is the correct birth cert for my great Grandfather.

On cross checking the GRO website with birth & death records it appears that Sarah may have had 5 boys that died soon after birth before she gave birth to Alfred. To confirm this I would probably need to buy all birth and death certs...so may put that off for a while!

Still pretty much confused as to the birth place of Sarah as are a number of other people who have the Chapman/Turners in their tree! Her place of birth on various Census records is recorded as Stepney or Rotherhithe and her mother Martha's place of birth - Rotherhithe or Woodbridge in Suffolk...strange as Rotherhithe is not even close to Woodbridge!

I thought it possible that the Sarah & Henry Jones on the 1861 Census at 8 Duke Street could be my great great grandparents as the birth/death dates of her sons appear to indicate that on the date the Census was taken in April she wouldn't have had any living children...although if that is the case we have the birth place as Wimbledon.  Then again as Jomot highlighted in his post there is a Sarah Chapman, 28 and unmarried in the 1861 Census at Lower Well Alley. This seems more likely to be my Sarah Chapman due to the link with the Turners and maybe there was at the time much confusion from the family as to where she was born - Stepney or Rotherhithe!

More research needed on my part but I'm not ready to give up yet...will keep looking and will endeavour to provide updates if I ever solve this mystery! 

Many thanks

Linda

[FARVIE]

Hi.. I am following your post with interest as we have also been hitting a block with our Jones surname. My grandfather was called Alfred Lewis Jones birth registered Shoreditch 1919.. His Father (My great grandfather) was a a mystery... The family rumour was that he was a bigamist... so hence my interest. My question to you is - do you know where your great grandfather is buried? Because if it is the same person... then I may be able to help you.

[Oxtonite62]

Hi.. I am following your post with interest as we have also been hitting a block with our Jones surname. My grandfather was called Alfred Lewis Jones birth registered Shoreditch 1919.. His Father (My great grandfather) was a a mystery... The family rumour was that he was a bigamist... so hence my interest. My question to you is - do you know where your great grandfather is buried? Because if it is the same person... then I may be able to help you.

Hi Farvie

Thanks for your interest. No, I have no idea where my great grandfather is buried. I know very little about him apart from information I’ve received on here. No one in my paternal family knew anything about him either so I’ve hit a dead end!