General Discussion on Current Situation 2/

[Ray T]

.... David Harper's awful paintings ....

https://www.irishnews.com/magazine/daily/2020/05/25/news/dominic-cummings-sighting-could-have-been-me-suggests-tv-antiques-expert-1951679/

 

It’s relatively easy to tell the difference between David Harper and the Cummings. DH paints in colours which match his trousers and Cummings dresses like a tramp.

[Ruskie]

That seems to be the case. 

[Pheno]

Personally, I don't think that whether DC acted legally or outside the rules, or whether he should go or stay needs to be uppermost in everybody's minds at present.  It really should be allowed to fade away now (for possible resurrection later).

Currently it seems to be top of everyone's mind - only encouraging people to emulate him in some circumstances and thus maybe spread the virus.

If it faded away then are people not more likely to heed the advice/guidelines without this spectre sitting on their shoulder, possibly encourage them to flout the rules.

Pheno

[IgorStrav]

"the media has suggested that Mr Cummings was in Durham on 19 April 2020. Mr Cummings denies this and Durham Constabulary have seen insufficient evidence to support this allegation"

"Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken."

For the first quotation, my bold.
I am fully supportive of the fact that we are all innocent until proved guilty, but 'insufficient evidence' doesn't mean that there wasn't any.

The second paragraph clearly demonstrates that if a police officer had discovered the Cummings family on their trip to Barnard Castle, his advice would have been to return to their current Durham residence.  If there were no contravention of the lockdown guidance at that stage, then the officer would not need to have done that.

And with regard to 'lies' on the part of various parties, I'm still intrigued by the fact that Dominic Cummings thought it a good idea to tell his Bank Holiday audience from the Rose Garden how prescient he'd been about Coronavirus pandemics and their risks way back last year.

A lie?  Sadly, yes.  He has been proven to have edited his blog on the date of his return from Durham to show this, when he'd not written anything of the kind at the time.

[Ray T]

Interesting to read the opinion of the Durham police; opinion is all it is. I would be interested to hear whether that opinion is shared with every other police force between London and Durham. The potential offence was initially committed within the Met’s territory and repeated in several others. Just as, if you’re stopped for speeding at the start of a journey, you’re still expected to stick to the limit for the rest of it.

[IgorStrav]

Interesting to read the opinion of the Durham police; opinion is all it is. I would be interested to hear whether that opinion is shared with every other police force between London and Durham. The potential offence was initially committed within the Met’s territory and repeated in several others. Just as, if you’re stopped for speeding at the start of a journey, you’re still expected to stick to the limit for the rest of it.

The Barnard Castle breaking of the regulations of the time is proven. 

DC has admitted it, and a complaint was made by someone who saw him there.

In addition, Durham police have said if an officer had seen and stopped DC and his family en route to/from Barnard Castle, they would have given him advice on the guidelines and advised him to return to Durham.  As I said in my earlier post, such advice wouldn't have been necessary if the guidelines weren't being broken.

Since the police weren't there at the time, and they say they aren't levying fines retrospectively for the breaking of guidelines, they aren't taking action.

But DC broke the guidelines.

[Gadget]

But DC broke the guidelines.

And he was, most likely, deeply involved in writing them.

The Secret Barrister's analysis is worth reading.

[Guy Etchells]

Interesting to read the opinion of the Durham police; opinion is all it is. I would be interested to hear whether that opinion is shared with every other police force between London and Durham. The potential offence was initially committed within the Met’s territory and repeated in several others. Just as, if you’re stopped for speeding at the start of a journey, you’re still expected to stick to the limit for the rest of it.

Sorry Ray but you are totally wrong as the guidance specifically includes -
"for any medical reason, to donate blood, avoid injury or illness, escape risk of harm, provide care or help a vulnerable person"

The reason for leaving London was covered by the above.
The dubious part was the Durham to Barnard Castle trip and that is within the jurisdiction of the Durham police force.
Secondly your analogy of a speeding offence is simply a red herring, as every speeding offence is a separate offence. A more accurate one would be if you are stopped in a vehicle with minor defects you are given a defect notice (Form VT5) that protects you for further enforcement on continuation of the journey.

I am sure many people could provide reasonable and legitimate reasons why Dominic Cummings should be sacked but trying to use the two trips in question shows the desperation of a lynch mob.
Cheers
Guy

[pharmaT]

Interesting to read the opinion of the Durham police; opinion is all it is. I would be interested to hear whether that opinion is shared with every other police force between London and Durham. The potential offence was initially committed within the Met’s territory and repeated in several others. Just as, if you’re stopped for speeding at the start of a journey, you’re still expected to stick to the limit for the rest of it.

Sorry Ray but you are totally wrong as the guidance specifically includes -
"for any medical reason, to donate blood, avoid injury or illness, escape risk of harm, provide care or help a vulnerable person"

The reason for leaving London was covered by the above.
The dubious part was the Durham to Barnard Castle trip and that is within the jurisdiction of the Durham police force.
Secondly your analogy of a speeding offence is simply a red herring, as every speeding offence is a separate offence. A more accurate one would be if you are stopped in a vehicle with minor defects you are given a defect notice (Form VT5) that protects you for further enforcement on continuation of the journey.

I am sure many people could provide reasonable and legitimate reasons why Dominic Cummings should be sacked but trying to use the two trips in question shows the desperation of a lynch mob.
Cheers
Guy

I am not a desperate lynch mob, I am desperately angry, I feel desperately betrayed by the Government (was feeling a bit that way already). Something not being in contravention of a law does not necessarily mean that it was the right thing to do.  I do not buy his excuse that it was his only option to protect his son and I have given it a lot of thought. I consider that his trip to Durham broke the spirit of the law.  Furthermore in his press conference he, himself stated that the day his wife called to say that she had symptoms he returned to work that afternoon.  That is the complete opposite of what the guidelines say someone from an asymptomatic household should do.  Now before you say anything I understand that is not enforcable by law but it was most definitely wrong.    It is especially stupid in a job that could be done from home connecting digitally with colleagues.  Working with the people at the top of Government is all the more reason that he should have followed all the prescribed steps for reducing spread. The way he and his colleagues have dealt with it since the story broke has compounded my feelings.  They have lied to us, they have patronised us, they're sorry we're confused.  I'm not confused I am perfectly clear on why I am upset.