Contact tracing, a rant

[Kiltpin]

if positive you will be informed of this and be told which phones with this app were near you.
6, you, no one else, will press the inform button which has activated on your phone. This sends a warning to those phones.

This seems highly unlikely and breaches everyone's privacy. I don't think anyone understands how it actually works and are just giving their own version.

Debra 

 

I agree with you, Debra. Even government officials vary their explanations. 

I cannot see why we haven't used the South Korean app. Tried and tested by a country that is the world leader in fighting the virus. Why are we re-inventing the wheel? 

Regards 

Chas

[arthurk]

The inform buttonn only becomes active to use if you have tested positive so cannot be misused.

Please could you give an authoritative source for that?

The page I quoted last night (https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/nhs-covid-19-app-explainer) is still saying the following:

If you then use the app to report that you’re experiencing coronavirus symptoms, all the phones that have been nearby will receive an alert from the app.

Users reading the alert will now know they may have been near a person with coronavirus, and can then self-isolate.

Nothing there about waiting for a positive test result - quite the opposite. And it's not "they have been near..." but "they may have been near..."

[groom]

if positive you will be informed of this and be told which phones with this app were near you.
6, you, no one else, will press the inform button which has activated on your phone. This sends a warning to those phones.

This seems highly unlikely and breaches everyone's privacy.  I don't think anyone understands how it actually works and are just giving their own version.

Debra 

The version that John and I gave came directly from the Health Authority on the IOW where it is being tested, so I presume that is what is happening with that one.

[Crumblie]

The inform buttonn only becomes active to use if you have tested positive so cannot be misused.

Please could you give an authoritative source for that?

The page I quoted last night (https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/nhs-covid-19-app-explainer) is still saying the following:

If you then use the app to report that you’re experiencing coronavirus symptoms, all the phones that have been nearby will receive an alert from the app.

Users reading the alert will now know they may have been near a person with coronavirus, and can then self-isolate.

Nothing there about waiting for a positive test result - quite the opposite. And it's not "they have been near..." but "they may have been near..."

The other thing the app does not know is what sort of environment the possible contact may have been in. It does not know if you were inside a building with little ventilation, well ventilated or even outdoors outdoors. And by the time you may exhibit symptoms will people be able to answer questions about possible contacts up to 14 days before.

[Guy Etchells]

The inform buttonn only becomes active to use if you have tested positive so cannot be misused.

Please could you give an authoritative source for that?

The page I quoted last night (https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/nhs-covid-19-app-explainer) is still saying the following:

If you then use the app to report that you’re experiencing coronavirus symptoms, all the phones that have been nearby will receive an alert from the app.

Users reading the alert will now know they may have been near a person with coronavirus, and can then self-isolate.

Nothing there about waiting for a positive test result - quite the opposite. And it's not "they have been near..." but "they may have been near..."

snip
 And by the time you may exhibit symptoms will people be able to answer questions about possible contacts up to 14 days before.

That is the advantage of the app, it records every other app user you have had contact with during the relevant time period.
Cheers
Guy

[arthurk]

The version that John and I gave came directly from the Health Authority on the IOW where it is being tested, so I presume that is what is happening with that one.

Strange - the Isle of Wight NHS Trust website has this to say:

When someone reports symptoms through the app, it will detect any other app users that the person has been in significant contact with over the past few days, including unknown contacts such as someone they may have sat next to on public transport. The app will be able to anonymously alert these contacts and provide advice, including how to get a test to confirm whether or not they do have COVID19....

As the integrated service develops, everyone who reports symptoms, including app users, will also be asked to record recent contacts using an online service (or through a telephone interview if they prefer), so that contact tracers can reach all contacts who may be at risk, whether or not those contacts are app users. Contacts will then be alerted either by the app or by email/telephone - advising them to self-isolate or offering public health advice.

Source: https://www.iow.nhs.uk/news/CORONAVIRUS-TEST-TRACK-AND-TRACE-PLAN-LAUNCHED-ON-ISLE-OF-WIGHT.htm

Again - nothing about waiting for test results 

It may be the only tool available, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. As currently described:
(a) it can't handle people who have the virus but don't have symptoms, because they won't have any reason to report themselves; and depending on which scientist you believe, asymptomatic cases might vastly outnumber those with symptoms
(b) if the Scottish figures can be extrapolated to the rest of the UK, the accuracy of self-reporting of symptoms compared to actual test results might be as low as 20%

Does any of this matter?

[Pheno]

No point in all these what ifs etc at the moment as it is all supposition.  We need to wait for some users on the IoW to report on how they used it, how that data was used and if others used it in a different manner and ultimately did it prevent anybody from getting the virus.

If there is no prevention involved what use is it simply to know that you might get it if you can't do anything about that as you have already been exposed.  You could be self isolating for evermore if you do 14 days each time you get an alert, having just popped out on day 15 for the essentials and potentially be in the contact radius of a trigger on that day and be required to self isolate again.  It might be worse than lockdown, where at least everybody else should be in the same boat, one could be self isolating for a fortnight every fortnight.

Pheno

[Ruskie]

It sounds like that could either cause mass panic if people are told that they may been in contact with someone who possibly thought they may have symptoms ....

or .... there is the danger that people might become blasé if they are contacted repeatedly due to having been in contact with someone who possibly thought they may have symptoms. 

[Gadget]

Interesting piece here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/06/critical-mass-of-android-users-needed-for-success-of-nhs-coronavirus-contact-tracing-app