UK request for help - Charles MYERS

[Michael Hammerson]

Yet more thanks for everyone's brilliant efforts. Judah Perkins - what a splendid name. I wonder what it was originally - possibly something like Pinchas?

In answer to Alan's question, I have Charles in the UK 1841 Census, aged 3, living in Spitalfields, London, with father Henry, 45; mother Elizabeth (hence the name of Charles' daughter?), 35; and siblings Rachel, 10; Hyam, 5; and Saul, 1.

I haven't been able as yet to find him in the 1851 Census, but in 1861 he was living at 8, Frying Pan Alley, Spitalfields, aged 25, with wife Ellen, 26 (born  Bristol), two children, born in Lambeth, south London - Elizabeth, 3, and Henry, 1 and, strangely, a Sophia Myers, 16, also born Lambeth but described as Servant.

Michael

[Fresh Fields]

Slowly working my way through 3,000 MYERS PapersPast hits, in the period you think Charles may have been in NZ. Given names not often used, mainly surnames, and when given are mainly Anglicized. A few Sam's and Charles' but often of the wrong age bracket. One prominent family had Irish links, and some linking to America. Often mentioned with inwards freight, and merchandising.

Did not think of the Jack / Jacob, so from your perspective should I also be looking for an Anglicized Hyam and Saul. And if so what would be your choice. I could quite easily see them introducing themselves with an Anglicized name, if staking and working in the bush, and mens's camps, on the Gold fields etc.

A Judah MYERS pops up a few times.

Alan.

[Michael Hammerson]

Difficult to know where to focus, especially with 3,000 hits, most of which are probably not our Charles! Given the proliferation of Myers names, and even the presence of more than one Charles, my own feeling, albeit as a less experienced researcher, is that we should work from the inside to the out - i.e., try to (a) ascertain whether my Charles was the 43rd man, the Waikato Militia man, or possibly both, (b) whether he was the blacksmith, or shoemaker, or even tried his hand at gold prospecting, and (c) try to find a Charles and Ellen Myers during the 1860s and 1870s (after which they went to Australia); if they can be pinned down that way, then working outward to their later lives is much more simple - and I think that is still the pivot of the search, the original aim of which is to ascertain if there is any substance in the Maori story, or whether your own suggestion, that it might just have been a comment from a visiting Maori, and the incident blown up by later family retelling, is nearer the truth. However, I am not familiar with the nature of the early settlement records, and it may be that finding a Charles and Ellen Myers and their three (later four) children during that period is not as straightforward as I assumed.
Thanks
Michael

[spades]

Hi Michael,

I think we can eliminate the Charles MYERS who served in the 43rd Light Infantry and arrived per Lady Jocelyn. His stated place of birth and his occupation don't fit.

I think he is more likely to be the Charles MYERS who served in the 3rd Waikato Regiment, even though this man's occupation on enlistment was that of engineer. everything else seems to fit; see his entry at the bottom of this page (apologies to all if it has already been posted):
https://cambridgemuseum.org.nz/arnold-charles-william/

Do you have an information about whether Charles was ever an engineer?

For a history of the 3rd Waikato Regiment see:
https://cambridgemuseum.org.nz/third-waikato-militia/

The latter link mentions that the 3rd Waikato Regiment was disbanded in 1867, and this suggests that the land grant in Cambridge East and Ohaupo was probably given soon after this date.

Note that in many cases the land was very difficult to break in for farming, and many men either sold their land to others with more capital or skills, or just simply walked away. For a thorough discussion of the issues discharged military veterans had to face in NZ civilian life see this very readable thesis:
https://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/xmlui/handle/10063/6740


Spades

[Fresh Fields]

At this time obtaining a printout of what appears could be the birth registration of Samuel in NZ is about all we could do because of lockdown, as they are emailed out to those who have purchased them. If lucky it could give a pointer as to where your MYERS were resident at that time. Or at least which region of NZ.

An email to the Cambridge Museum, may get a volunteer who is able to shed more light on their published lists, and were source material is held for further study.

Finnis Street Adelaide research has allowed cross checking and confirming that there were two sibling sisters, and given other surnames in "their bubble" by association, that can be included in searches. Some great work by the team.

Unfortunately we don't have retained census records in NZ. There are some early jury lists, but I think the search engines have access to them, so should show to a general search.

Other archives held files that may have info to contribute to the research, or eliminate from, are not available to public viewing until lockdown is lifted.

The way the PapersPast hits display an abstract it is relatively simple to scroll down 100 hits, at a time, while having a cuppa. Done 15 pages so far.

Alan.

[Michael Hammerson]

This is interesting, because if he is not the 43rd man, then I have been assuming, wrongly, that he went from the Crimean Navy to the regular Army; and his obituary makes clear that he served both in the Crimea and the Maori Wars. I therefore need to do some more searching up here to establish what he was doing beween his discharge from the Navy in 1856 and his arrival in New Zealand - and, if he was not in the regular army, why he would have gone to NZ without his family and asked them to join him later, presumably around mid-1865, if they arrived in NZ in January 1865. Or was it normal for pioneer settlers to go out without their families and call them to join them later?
Michael

[minniehaha]

Part quote from reply #76.....

"At this time obtaining a printout of what appears could be the birth registration of Samuel in NZ is about all we could do because of lockdown, as they are emailed out to those who have purchased them. If lucky it could give a pointer as to where your MYERS were resident at that time. Or at least which region of NZ."


As mentioned elsewhere, I agree that this 1868 birth registration is most likely that of the son of Charles & Ellen Myers. If the father, (Samuel) as named on the on-line NZ BDM index is also shown on the actual printout, Ellen's maiden name on the document should hopefully settle the matter one way or the other.

Minniehaha.

[Michael Hammerson]

PS - and that, I think, will include trying to find any appropriate synagogue records in London, which will have to wait until after lockdown.
Michael

[minniehaha]

I know you have this information Michael but I am putting the link up for the interest of Rootschatters. I don't think it already appears here?

Obituary of Charles Myers [1920]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/149672669?searchTerm=%22charles%20myers%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=charles+myers|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom=1920-01-01|||dateTo=1920-12-31|||sortby


Minniehaha.