Birth/baptism records in Paris 1855

[MobileNanny]

Hello all. I'm trying to find information on a birth of Louisa Webb (or may be Fitzjohn) in Paris around 1855, to a British mother(nee Elizabeth Prince) and probably British father(either Alphonse Fitzjohn or James Webb). On the 1861 census in Chelsea, she is born 'Paris-British Subject'. I know that her mother had been married to Alphonse Fitzjohn, who was a 'Gentleman' born in Chelsea, on the 1851 census. By 1861 Elizabeth was married to James Webb. Neither marriage has been found. Any help would be marvellous. Thank you.

[garstonite]

1851 census has
1, Anderson St
St Luke Chelsea, Middlesex
Household Members:    
Jane Grant (43, Female)
Arthur Grant (12, Male)
Alphonse Fitzjohn (37, Male)
Elizabeth Fitzjohn (26, Female)
Alphonse Fitzjohn (3, Male)
..................................................................
I can't quite make this out - Paris  record  of a Louisa WEBB - but the way I am reading it - it looks like
Louisa Webb  to a Monsieur Covard marriage - 22nd Oct 1882 ...no christian name for Mr Covard - which is strange - maybe I am reading it wrong - have a look yourself
 12/21/1882 doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
WEBB Louisa
& COVARD   Paris (Paris, France)
original pages records on here
https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/207082/21?idcollection=207082&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=21

[MobileNanny]

Hello. Thank you for looking at my query. I already have the information from the 1851 census. And I can confirm that the Louisa Webb you found isn't the one that I'm researching as she married in Aston, Warwickshire in 1874 to a Joseph Warren. I'm just looking for her birth to confirm who her father was. As I say, thank you though.

1851 census has
1, Anderson St
St Luke Chelsea, Middlesex
Household Members:    
Jane Grant (43, Female)
Arthur Grant (12, Male)
Alphonse Fitzjohn (37, Male)
Elizabeth Fitzjohn (26, Female)
Alphonse Fitzjohn (3, Male)
..................................................................
I can't quite make this out - Paris  record  of a Louisa WEBB - but the way I am reading it - it looks like
Louisa Webb  to a Monsieur Covard marriage - 22nd Oct 1882 ...no christian name for Mr Covard - which is strange - maybe I am reading it wrong - have a look yourself
 12/21/1882 doc_viewer_editer_marqueur
WEBB Louisa
& COVARD   Paris (Paris, France)
original pages records on here
https://en.geneanet.org/archives/registres/view/207082/21?idcollection=207082&legacy_script=%2Farchives%2Fregistres%2Fview%2Findex.php&page=21

[jorose]

Hi there,

Paris civil birth records from that period are among the records destroyed during the siege of Paris in 1870/1 (there are some reconstructed records but they are considered to be only maybe a third of the total).

However, as she was born to British parents, you also have potentially access to overseas births and baptisms - e.g. her parents may have registered her with the British consulate, and she also may have been baptised in an Anglican church in Paris, or baptised when the family returned.  There are various different sources:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/British_Births,_Marriages_and_Deaths_Overseas

It was not required to register an overseas birth so the coverage is unfortunately quite spotty.

Trying to put things in a timeline - would be very helpful if we could find some reference other than her census records confirming where and why these families were in France!

1851 - with Alphonse Fitzjohn in Chelsea
Mar 1851 - registration of Harry Fitzjohn (shown on census) but with mother's maiden name blank on GRO
1853 - birth of Mary Ann Elizabeth Fitzjohn / Fitz John in Chelsea - mother's maiden name Prince. Appears as Mary Webb in 1861 census. No later sign of Alphonse.
1855/6 - birth of Louisa (varies a little but this is consistent with the earliest census records ) - middle name Adelphine, later gives her father as James Austin Webb and is fairly consistent about using Webb.
1858 - birth of John Richard Webb, mmn Prince, in Sussex (on 1861 as Richard Webb)

So we are looking for traces of this family (Fitzjohn, Webb, Prince, or ) in Paris between 1853 and 1858
http://archives.paris.fr/s/5/etat-civil-reconstitue/?
 - reconstructed records of Paris show:
Charles Francois Webb, born 26 April 1854
Henriette Webb, born 18 February 1856
Anna Webb, born 7th August 1856
Florence Eugenie Webb, born 11 August 1855  (11e Arrondissment) - there is also a death under this name.
Madeline Antoinette Webb, born 14 April 1858 (10e) - there is also a death under this name.

There are no Fitzjohn births in this record set.

Can you find any other traces of Alphonse? Do you have info on James Austin Webb's whereabouts before 1861? One slightly wild suggestion - with the even spacing of the children, is it possible that "Alphonse Fitzjohn" was simply an alias for James Austin Webb?

[joger]

http://archives.paris.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMjAtMDQtMTEiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6NDtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6MjI0MDc2O3M6MTY6InZpc2lvbm5ldXNlX2h0bWwiO2I6MTtzOjIxOiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sX21vZGUiO3M6NDoicHJvZCI7fQ==#uielem_move=468.04998779296875%2C76&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=63&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F
slide 14/18

But it could be another Louisa Webb, she is said to be daughter of William Webb, no infos on the mother, wife of COWARD Thomas , coachman. Lived 63 Avenue Malakoff , Paris ,16th arrondissement.

NB: I think they could have been living here , because Thomas was an employee of an upper class family

[ShaunJ]

Interesting bio here of Harry Alphonse Fitzjohn, Louisa's nephew. There are some factual errors: his father Alphonse was born in Ewell, Surrey in 1847, and not Middlesex in 1849, and he came to the US in 1867, not 1870, according to census records.

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/fitzjohn/fitzjohn.htm

[MobileNanny]

Hello. Thanks for all of this. My french friend has been looking in to much of what you have said here, so I'm now aware of just how difficult/impossible this search is going to be. So, Elizabeth who was married to Alphonse Fitzjohn was the daughter of a successful horse trainer from Newmarket. Alphonse is down as 'Gentleman' on the census and so could have also been in the business of horses, maybe via his family, given that he didn't have to work for his money. Only surmising, but a possibility.
I have no other information on Alphonse. No birth, no death, not even the marriage to Elizabeth. He isn't on the 1841 census. I have also considered whether Alphonse and Joseph Webb are one of the same. I doubt it but it can't be ruled out. However, going by the fact that Alphonse Jnr (see post below about him emigrating) goes by Fitzjohn, then I think that it's unlikely.
Tricky one, huh?!!!

Hi there,

Paris civil birth records from that period are among the records destroyed during the siege of Paris in 1870/1 (there are some reconstructed records but they are considered to be only maybe a third of the total).

However, as she was born to British parents, you also have potentially access to overseas births and baptisms - e.g. her parents may have registered her with the British consulate, and she also may have been baptised in an Anglican church in Paris, or baptised when the family returned.  There are various different sources:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/British_Births,_Marriages_and_Deaths_Overseas

It was not required to register an overseas birth so the coverage is unfortunately quite spotty.

Trying to put things in a timeline - would be very helpful if we could find some reference other than her census records confirming where and why these families were in France!

1851 - with Alphonse Fitzjohn in Chelsea
Mar 1851 - registration of Harry Fitzjohn (shown on census) but with mother's maiden name blank on GRO
1853 - birth of Mary Ann Elizabeth Fitzjohn / Fitz John in Chelsea - mother's maiden name Prince. Appears as Mary Webb in 1861 census. No later sign of Alphonse.
1855/6 - birth of Louisa (varies a little but this is consistent with the earliest census records ) - middle name Adelphine, later gives her father as James Austin Webb and is fairly consistent about using Webb.
1858 - birth of John Richard Webb, mmn Prince, in Sussex (on 1861 as Richard Webb)

So we are looking for traces of this family (Fitzjohn, Webb, Prince, or ) in Paris between 1853 and 1858
http://archives.paris.fr/s/5/etat-civil-reconstitue/?
 - reconstructed records of Paris show:
Charles Francois Webb, born 26 April 1854
Henriette Webb, born 18 February 1856
Anna Webb, born 7th August 1856
Florence Eugenie Webb, born 11 August 1855  (11e Arrondissment) - there is also a death under this name.
Madeline Antoinette Webb, born 14 April 1858 (10e) - there is also a death under this name.

There are no Fitzjohn births in this record set.

Can you find any other traces of Alphonse? Do you have info on James Austin Webb's whereabouts before 1861? One slightly wild suggestion - with the even spacing of the children, is it possible that "Alphonse Fitzjohn" was simply an alias for James Austin Webb?

[MobileNanny]

Thank you for looking but unfortunately this isn't the correct Louisa Webb.

http://archives.paris.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMjAtMDQtMTEiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6NDtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6MjI0MDc2O3M6MTY6InZpc2lvbm5ldXNlX2h0bWwiO2I6MTtzOjIxOiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sX21vZGUiO3M6NDoicHJvZCI7fQ==#uielem_move=468.04998779296875%2C76&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=63&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F
slide 14/18

But it could be another Louisa Webb, she is said to be daughter of William Webb, no infos on the mother, wife of COWARD Thomas , coachman. Lived 63 Avenue Malakoff , Paris ,16th arrondissement.

NB: I think they could have been living here , because Thomas was an employee of an upper class family

[MobileNanny]

Thank you for this. I had seen an Alphonse Fitzjohn in the US but I hadn't looked further in to it as yet. That's more news that I can pass on to my friends, for whom I am doing the search for.

Interesting bio here of Harry Alphonse Fitzjohn, Louisa's nephew. There are some factual errors: his father Alphonse was born in Ewell, Surrey in 1847, and not Middlesex in 1849, and he came to the US in 1867, not 1870, according to census records.

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/fitzjohn/fitzjohn.htm