Author Topic: Never lose hope in your search!  (Read 1406 times)

Offline TunjiLees

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Never lose hope in your search!
« on: Friday 03 April 20 00:41 BST (UK) »
Just wanted to share my joy at discovering the existence of a set of Irish estate papers held in England. I haven't seen the records themselves yet, but based on their description they will almost certainly list ancestors of mine! I didn't have much luck finding the family at PRONI, so this is really great! ;D ;D ;D

The records cover lands in the parishes of Ahoghill and Portglenone in Co. Antrim and are not listed by Grenham or Roulson in their comprehensive Irish genealogy books, neither does PRONI or the NAI appear to have copies of them. I discovered their existence by tracing the landowning family and then found out that the lands passed to a family based in England.

The records are held by the Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Archive. Here is the description of some of them;
- D661/8/2/1 Rental of Mountstafford and Ballylumin estates (Antrim) 1806; Gives tenant's names and rents. no description of holdings.
- D661/8/2/2 Yearly Rent rolls and estate agent's current accounts for estates at Ballylumin and Mountstafford, 1810-1829; Tenants' names only. Holdings not described or named.
- D661/8/2/3 Rent roll of Mountstafford estate, (Antrim) 1844; Gives tenants' names, acreages of holdings, and rents, with some remarks.
- D661/8/2/4 Yearly rent rolls and agents' current accounts for Mountstafford estate, (Antrim)   1851-63; Gives tenants' names, rents, arrears and rent reductions or allowances.
- D661/8/2/6/3 Account of rent rebates given to tenants because of potato famine, Mountstafford, (Antrim), 1849; with notes of improvements carried out by tenants' in lieu of rent.
- D661/8/2/6/8 three maps of lands intended to be planted with trees, showing existing tenants, and acreages of fields, 1848
LEES/LEE - Interested in all Northern Irish families, particularly those from Cos. Londonderry, Tyrone, & Antrim.

See the project website @ ulsterlees.azurewebsites.net

Online Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,937
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #1 on: Friday 03 April 20 02:11 BST (UK) »
Knowing the difficulties I'm having with my OH's direct Irish ancestry from his grandfather and earlier, I think you've done a superb job.

I hope when you receive the records they open a veritable treasure chest for you.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline philipsearching

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,094
  • I was a beautiful baby - what went wrong?
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 April 20 10:52 BST (UK) »
Knowing the difficulties I'm having with my OH's direct Irish ancestry from his grandfather and earlier, I think you've done a superb job.

I hope when you receive the records they open a veritable treasure chest for you.

I agree!

It makes me wonder how many estate documents ended up in the family papers of the landowners and how few have been deposited in archives.

Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #3 on: Friday 03 April 20 10:55 BST (UK) »


They were the family papers of family who owned/leased the Estate.
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.


Offline Elwyn Soutter

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,691
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 April 20 13:19 BST (UK) »


It makes me wonder how many estate documents ended up in the family papers of the landowners and how few have been deposited in archives.

Philip

A lot of Irish estate records were deposited in the Public Record Office in Dublin but were lost in the 1922 fire. After that, many estates were reluctant to deposit their records in the replacement Public Record Offices (in Belfast & Dublin), for fear they wouldn't be all that safe.

Many of the big estate owners had land in various different parts of the British Isles. That also meant that records ended up being kept in unexpected places. And then, as in this case, deposited in an unexpected repository.
Elwyn

Offline Charlie J

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #5 on: Monday 13 April 20 13:33 BST (UK) »
Had a similar experience myself a few years ago. I have a habit of doing google searches misspelling ancestors names and addresses and found a series of 26 letters relating to an incident one of my ancestors was involved in in 1851. My ancestor was a land agent and someone tried to assassinate him. The letters explain the circumstances leading up to and shortly after the attempt and include 2 letters from my ancestor. The records were in Hull Archives. I also ended up finding a transcript of the court case for the accused.
Despite high infant mortality rates and lower life expectancies, not one of your direct ancestors died childless.

Offline CBGenealogy

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 18 April 20 00:01 BST (UK) »
Lots of estate papers still with the original family, particularly if they've retained their house/land. Some are amenable to being contacted but very few have an archivist.

Also lots of estate papers are in the relevant county archive. Most of these do not have great websites or online catalogues. You really need to phone them to find out if a trip is worthwhile.

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 52,590
    • View Profile
Re: Never lose hope in your search!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 18 April 20 10:35 BST (UK) »
Some local estate records turned up about 10 years or so ago in the office of the family's solicitor. They family sold out here about 100 years ago and relocated to England but the solicitors contacted them and the papers were donated to the local museum.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!