O'Neill

[Peter Spering]

Hi, I've been interested in tracing back the Irish roots on my mother's side, but it's proving to be an uphill struggle so I'm going to ask for help. At the heart of this is:

James O'Neill (though his name is John on Josephine's marriage record)

- Born abt 1845 in Ireland, son of Patrick O'Neill. (Liverpool census, Liverpool Catholic Marriage record)
- Married Mary Currid (b. 1848) on 7 May 1866 at St Augustine Church, Liverpool. Being a Catholic marriage, their names are recorded as Jacobum and Mariam (Liverpool Catholic Marriage record)

I think there may be some crossed wires because his daughter has a CoE marriage but there's a Catholic burial record. I'm so confused and lost. The starting point is Ernest G Bramwell (1891 - 1948) who married Ann Fellowes. I'm trying to trace back from his mother who was some kind of Josephine (I think... the more I search, the more my head spins) and definitely an O'Neill.

Anecdotally, my mother did a DNA test and one of three big matches was an Irish one. I decided to contact him and throw in the O'Neill surname for good measure. His response is attached.

History has taught me that there are true pros on here with far better genealogical skills than me, so I'm reaching out for a little help to put me back on track. Thanks in advance.

[hallmark]

There are about 1058 R.C parishes in Ireland, with no location all you can do is check each one, one by one,  but do you know parents names to identify which one is yours?

Map to give you an idea of parishes in a few Counties

[heywood]

Do you have Josephine’s birth certificate?

I see that in 1911, she is Julia Josephine Bramwell - is that her?

There is a birth for Julia Josephine O’Neill December quarter 1870, West Derby but she has mother’s name of McNamee.

[heywood]

What is John’s occupation on her marriage record?
Who are the witnesses?

[Peter Spering]

@hallmark

Presuming I'm on the right track, James' father is called Patrick.

@heywood

RE: Josephine's birth certificate.

Her DoB relied on the 1911 census and the 1871 census. Now then, I've gone back to the 1871 census and it shows this:


James O'neill   Head   -   Male   26   1845   -   Ireland
Mary   O'neill   Wife   -   Female   23   1848   -   Ireland
Bridget O'neill   Daughter   -   Female   4   1867   -   Ireland
Julia   O'neill   Daughter   -   Female   0   1871   -   Lancashire, England
Edward McEvoy   Boarder   -   Male   28   1843   -   Ireland

This must have been where James came in. I'm pretty sure Currid, surname for Mary, must have come from either a FindMyPast suggestion, if not their marriage records. It may be nothing, but when I searched the Catholic baptism record for Julia, Mary was listed as Mary McEvoy:

Father:   Jacobi Oneill
Mother:   Maria Mcevoy

RE: Occupation

On the marriage record from 1891, he's named John and a police officer. In 1871, he's James and his occupation is a seaman. I feel like I've made an error somewhere, somehow. It's frustrating because one woman or the other has the same name(s), both are the same age and both are from the same place.

The witnesses on the marriage are Henrietta Petrali (John's sister) and a Thomas Evans.

[heywood]

I don’t think you can be sure with the evidence you have but I can’t see much either 

Just for information

Baptism
Joanna O’Neill daughter of John and Julia (McNemee) baptised September 1870
St Patrick’s Liverpool.

The record is in Latin  but - Juliae for mother but not for child  I spent a long time looking for my husband’s grandmother Julia and eventually found her as Joanna so it does happen.

[Peter Spering]

I don’t think you can be sure with the evidence you have but I can’t see much either 

Just for information

Baptism
Joanna O’Neill daughter of John and Julia (McNemee) baptised September 1870
St Patrick’s Liverpool.

The record is in Latin  but - Juliae for mother but not for child  I spent a long time looking for my husband’s grandmother Julia and eventually found her as Joanna so it does happen.

Thank you, I'm going to bear this in mind. I just wish frickin' Julia Josephine or whatever she called herself could stick to one name instead of acting like a nominal jack in the box.

 That said, looking back at the 1901 and 1911 censuses, which I'm 100% sure about because they feature the names of all the right kids, there's a few Murphys living with them and they're listed as nephews. The Bramwells were all Welsh and we know 100% that great gran Jojo as I'll call her for now was an O'Neill, it might be that the Murphy boys are maternal nephews.

[wivenhoe]

"..The starting point is Ernest G Bramwell (1891 - 1948) who married Ann Fellowes. I'm trying to trace back from his mother who was some kind of Josephine (I think... the more I search, the more my head spins) and definitely an O'Neill."

A lot of uncertainty here. Start with the BRAMWELL - FELLOWES marriage record. Can you please list the information on the certificate.

Do you see Ernest G BRAMWELL on the 1901 and 1911 census.

[heywood]

Yes, I wondered if you had checked those Murphy men.