Author Topic: Can I claim this family?  (Read 1039 times)

Offline whpool

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Can I claim this family?
« on: Saturday 15 February 20 02:33 GMT (UK) »
I have a definite birth of  John Harrison Ward 1822 - confirmed from parish register, showing parents James and Elizabeth. I have the marriage of James and Elizabeth Parsabell, in the parish of Lythe January 1818. Witnesses to this marriage were Thomas and David Ward - I assumed they were brothers to James. So I then worked backwards and found indeed that a James Ward abt 1790 did have two younger brothers Thomas and David. Going further back four more children found all having same parents - David Ward and Jane Robinson. So what more confirmation do I need before I can claim this family as mine?  Hope this all makes sense,  :) :) Thank you.
Atkinson/Campbell - Sunderland area
Davison - Hartlepool [old side]
Ward - Ireland, Whitby, West Hartlepool
Ross - Bishop Auckland
Rogers - Stirling, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall
Hocking - Cornwall
Pattison - Scotland, north England, [travellers]
Welsh - Ireland, Co Durham [travellers]

Offline Essnell

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 688
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 15 February 20 05:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello Whpool, 
Could you say how you think you are connected?
Essnell

Offline whpool

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 15 February 20 05:25 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the reply. Sorry I should have said, I come down from John Harrison Ward, only child of James Ward and Elizabeth Parsabell. I have his birth and baptism, also marriage of his parents. I was trying to go back a bit further, that's why I followed the [assumed] two brothers [witnesses to the marriage of James].  I don't know whether my findings are a 'fair assumption' or could be classed as proven? Thanks again.
Atkinson/Campbell - Sunderland area
Davison - Hartlepool [old side]
Ward - Ireland, Whitby, West Hartlepool
Ross - Bishop Auckland
Rogers - Stirling, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall
Hocking - Cornwall
Pattison - Scotland, north England, [travellers]
Welsh - Ireland, Co Durham [travellers]

Offline Guy Etchells

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 4,632
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 15 February 20 06:25 GMT (UK) »
A quick look at the online records at Familysearch reveals-

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
John Harrison Ward born 22 Sep 1822 , christened 31 Dec 1826, SAINT HILDA'S CATHOLIC,WHITBY,YORK,ENGLAND. Father James Ward, mother Elizabeth Parcbell.

Also England and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8), 1588-1977
John Harrison Ward  christened 31 Dec 1826 WHITBY,YORK,ENGLAND Parents James Ward & Elizabeth Ward

Also England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 
John Harrison Ward  christened 27 Sep 1822 WHITBY,YORK,ENGLAND Parents James Ward & Elizabeth

These are transcripts, therefore the original parish registers & Catholic Registers must be checked to see if they are all referring to the same people who changed faith or different people.

Only after this anomaly is solved is it worth going further back.

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.


Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,891
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 15 February 20 09:23 GMT (UK) »
Do you know when James Ward died?
Have you looked for a will for him?
If there is one, there's a good likelihood he would mention all his sons.
That would give you conclusive evidence of the family relationship.

You also might find other 'Ward' people from the same area - always worth spreading the net - you never know what you might find.

Not sure of Yorkshire wills are on findmypast (I know they have a lot for other places), or possibly Ancestry, or familysearch might have filmed them.  I think some are at The Borthwick Institute.

An old topic here on Rootschat about Yorkshire wills
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=227624.0
Looks as if they are digitised on familysearch.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline arthurk

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 5,376
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 15 February 20 10:38 GMT (UK) »
Not sure of Yorkshire wills are on findmypast (I know they have a lot for other places), or possibly Ancestry, or familysearch might have filmed them.  I think some are at The Borthwick Institute.

An old topic here on Rootschat about Yorkshire wills
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=227624.0
Looks as if they are digitised on familysearch.

FindMyPast have indexes to Yorkshire wills, and images of some of the actual wills proved in peculiar courts.

As far as I can tell (and I've just checked) FamilySearch might have images of the wills available if you visit an LDS Family History Centre, but they don't seem to be available elsewhere. (If anyone finds them, please let me know!  ;D)

Offline Albufera32

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 15 February 20 14:32 GMT (UK) »
If I understand the original enquiry correctly, what you are asking is whether the combination of the two witnesses at James and Elizabeth's marriage being Thomas and David Ward and the birth of three brothers James, David and Thomas being born to the same parents (along with the 4 other children) is sufficient evidence to assume that the James born to David Ward and Jane Robinson is the James who later married Elizabeth Parsabell.

The answer, I would suggest is "maybe". What you have is strong circumstantial evidence, but not definitive proof. On the other hand, for records before statutory registration, it may well be all the evidence you are likely to get. Whether you consider it as sufficient to add to your tree, is, ultimately, down to personal choice. Do YOU think it is strong enough evidence?

For myself, I would probably consider what you have as strong enough to add to my tree, knowing that it might later prove mistaken, but I would be researching the other brothers, looking for any common links or further hints.

I had one instance of a Janet Howie in my tree who emigrated to New Zealand. The evidence linking her to my tree was tenuous, but I had a feeling it fitted, so I added her in and followed her descendants. Eventually I found a marriage reported in the New Zealand papers of a descendant of hers who was described as descended from the "lairds of Tarbolton and Riccarton" (a slight exaggeration, they were tenant farmers) which confirmed the link. Later still I found that Janet's father lived to 1856, and the statutory register of his death proved that he was indeed a son of "my" line.
Howie (Riccarton Ayrshire)
McNeil/ McNeill (Argyll)
Main (Airdrie Lanarkshire)
Grant (Lanarkshire and Bo'ness)
More (Lanarkshire)
Ure (Polmont)
Colligan (Lanarkshire)
Drinnan (New Zealand)

Offline whpool

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can I claim this family?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 15 February 20 21:51 GMT (UK) »
If I understand the original enquiry correctly, what you are asking is whether the combination of the two witnesses at James and Elizabeth's marriage being Thomas and David Ward and the birth of three brothers James, David and Thomas being born to the same parents (along with the 4 other children) is sufficient evidence to assume that the James born to David Ward and Jane Robinson is the James who later married Elizabeth Parsabell.

The answer, I would suggest is "maybe". What you have is strong circumstantial evidence, but not definitive proof. On the other hand, for records before statutory registration, it may well be all the evidence you are likely to get. Whether you consider it as sufficient to add to your tree, is, ultimately, down to personal choice. Do YOU think it is strong enough evidence?

For myself, I would probably consider what you have as strong enough to add to my tree, knowing that it might later prove mistaken, but I would be researching the other brothers, looking for any common links or further hints.

I had one instance of a Janet Howie in my tree who emigrated to New Zealand. The evidence linking her to my tree was tenuous, but I had a feeling it fitted, so I added her in and followed her descendants. Eventually I found a marriage reported in the New Zealand papers of a descendant of hers who was described as descended from the "lairds of Tarbolton and Riccarton" (a slight exaggeration, they were tenant farmers) which confirmed the link. Later still I found that Janet's father lived to 1856, and the statutory register of his death proved that he was indeed a son of "my" line.
Thank you Albufera - that's exactly what I was asking - James [married Elizabeth Parsabell] died at sea whilst Elizabeth was pregnant. She remarried to a Catholic by the name of John Harrison - and the child [to James] was re-christened into the Catholic church [John Harrison Ward]. I will try and find other connections to his assumed brothers. I shall attach to the tree under 'assumed' until I can confirm better. Thank you so much for your advice. Regards.
Atkinson/Campbell - Sunderland area
Davison - Hartlepool [old side]
Ward - Ireland, Whitby, West Hartlepool
Ross - Bishop Auckland
Rogers - Stirling, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall
Hocking - Cornwall
Pattison - Scotland, north England, [travellers]
Welsh - Ireland, Co Durham [travellers]