Looking for Ellen McGrath and William Desmond Murphy

[Karytay]

heywood thought you might be interested to know that the meaning of this “Wife died struck off the strength of the Battalion 18.12.02.”

Recently receive this info link-
http://www.royalengineers.ca/femnkid.html

Some woman, wives of soldiers were allowed to live with their husbands at the barracks including the children. Woman had to work in the barracks, probably doing the washing cleaning, mending of clothes and so on. They had to earn their keep.

So being struck off of the strength of the Battalion means she died and was not under the care of that regiment any longer.

[heywood]

Thanks for that. I thought that would be the reason when I wrote that I thought it meant she was with him.
I recall reading about the wives several years ago, doing those jobs. What a hard existence.
That’s very interesting reading about their lives.
Thanks and all good wishes.

[Karytay]

Hi everyone, thanks for all your help. Back with some other info I found for Edmond Murphy.

Thanking into consideration that according to the sons marriage certificates Edmond was dead. William's marriage 1900 then Andrew's 1897.
I found this probate index for an Edmond. Died 22 Jan 1894 everything left to Margaret Murphy widow. Could this be right?

Another thing on Williams's marriage record it says his father was a policemen. But all other documents says he is a labourer.

[KevinOK]

Hi all, thanks for all of the hard work put into this research 4 or 5 years ago. I am impressed with the cooperation of the members. I have just joined today after finding this thread and am amazed to see the same research results that I have just found myself over the last month. I am helping my cousin Liam Murphy from Clonmel with his research into this family and he also did a lot of legwork himself over the years examining RIC police records for Edmond(Edward) and military records for William Murphy. Liam is a great grandson of Wm D Murphy and his first wife Ellen Magrath(McGrath) who died in Malta. Their 2 year old daughter Mary Ellen was sent back to Ireland with a nurse to be reared by her step-grandmother Kate McGrath, a widow and 2nd wife of Laurence McGrath and so stepmother of the deceased Ellen. That baby survived and married another unrelated Murphy (James) in 1922 in Clonmel. Their son was Liam's father.

William(1862) definitely had an older brother John born in Fethard in 1860, but I am not sure whether the 6 or 7 children born in Thurles after 1862 (Andrew, Martin, Edmond, etc.) to an Edmond Murphy and Margaret Sweeney are the same family ; they could be but it is also possible to have a couple with exactly the same 2 names in another town in County Tipperary. Maybe Edmond (RIC policeman) was transferred.

A possibility on first army enlistment is that William borrowed John's 1860 date of birth in order to join up in 1878 when he was only 16.

William left the army in South Africa and worked in the Bloemfontein prison service. He married a much younger wife in 1911 and they had 3 sons. They divorced in 1927 and she remarried in 1928. I don't know if William ever returned to Ireland (to visit) or if he had a 3rd wife but he did live into his 90's and died at Lichtenburg (a mining area near Johannesburg) in 1954. His death cert says intended burial place was Lichtenburg Municipal Cemetery and so I have created a FindAGrave memorial for him there with a request for a volunteer to identify and photograph the grave.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/285101970/william-desmond-murphy

[KevinOK]

@Karytay , that will/testament was probably for a different Edmond Murphy ; the address was CastleJohn (near Carrick-on-Suir and Grangemockler) rather than Fethard (or Thurles or Clonmel).
Also unlikely that a retired policeman would have had as much as £79 when he died.
When he was discharged from the police force he received a gratuity of £6-15-5.

From the R.I.C. records (colonial police - Royal Irish Constabulary) for Edward Murphy, No. 17189.
Native of Fermanagh. 5 foot 8 1/4 inches. Roman Catholic. Aged 18 on joining on 15 June 1853. Recommended by Rev. R. Johnston (Protestant clergyman). Previously a labourer. Assigned to Tipperary 9 Nov 1853. Promoted to 1st Sub Constable 1st January 1854. Discharged on gratuity of £6-15-5 (no date or further details).

[KevinOK]

Here is Form H in 1901 for the Barrack at Athlone.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Athlone_Urban__W_/Ranelagh/1773942/

If you scroll down you can see the last name is W Murphy. Under that you can see Barrack Return (Form H) - page 6 is the last page. The name looks like ‘Murthy’ but all rest fits - C Sergt RIRR b Tipperary.
For ‘Occupation’, I think it might read ‘unemployed’ but it has been transcribed as ‘Employer’ on the census page for ‘show all information’. It is difficult to decide.

@heywood , re. Reply #51 , the occupation on the original handwritten form was Bricklayer.

[KevinOK]

Hi everyone, thanks for all your help. Back with some other info I found for Edmond Murphy.

Thanking into consideration that according to the sons marriage certificates Edmond was dead. William's marriage 1900 then Andrew's 1897.
I found this probate index for an Edmond. Died 22 Jan 1894 everything left to Margaret Murphy widow. Could this be right?

Another thing on Williams's marriage record it says his father was a policemen. But all other documents says he is a labourer.

@Karytay, the man who started the other thread 10 years ago (bmur) is possibly the Benjamin Murphy on Ancestry who has a minimal family tree there and who started a tree on FamilySearch in 2018 which has now become part of a global tree and is still being edited and corrected by multiple users : https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/portrait/LBRV-7QG

[heywood]

Here is Form H in 1901 for the Barrack at Athlone.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Athlone_Urban__W_/Ranelagh/1773942/

If you scroll down you can see the last name is W Murphy. Under that you can see Barrack Return (Form H) - page 6 is the last page. The name looks like ‘Murthy’ but all rest fits - C Sergt RIRR b Tipperary.
For ‘Occupation’, I think it might read ‘unemployed’ but it has been transcribed as ‘Employer’ on the census page for ‘show all information’. It is difficult to decide.

@heywood , re. Reply #51 , the occupation on the original handwritten form was Bricklayer.

Can see it now 

[Karytay]

Thanks KevinOK
For the info and help.