Looking for Ellen McGrath and William Desmond Murphy

[hallmark]

This is from that previous thread

Hi Sarah thanks for info

I have received the following details from maggsie & cath 151 (1) date of birth 5.10.1860 (2) born county Tipperary (3) brother named John born 1856  (4) the following still to be confirmed :- (1) was his wife's name Ellen (nee  McGrath)  (2) where can a 'vault' copy of his birth certificate be obtained and @ what cost ?

Thank you,

regards

Bmur

We have
William Murphy baptised 11 September 1862 Fethard Tipp. With parents Edmund and Margaret Sweeney
John Murphy baptised 12 August 1860 Fethard - Edmund and Margaret Sweeney
There are others.

Two posters - Maggsie and cath151 - on that other thread have given contrary information re births. Maybe you can find out what records  that information comes from.

Probably in some Church Register?  Maybe poster has source.

[Karytay]

Yes will go to that thread and ask the poster. Thanks hallmark

[hallmark]

Is there relevant stuff on that thread?

[heywood]

Well I think I have good news. I went to the library to search for the military mentions on FindMyPast for William Murphy born 1860/1, County Tipperary.
There are 5 records - 4 for Fethard ( Tethard transcription on 2) and 1 born Cahir which I have discounted.
I have no knowledge of military movements between regiments etc. I made notes but not really detailed ones and hope I can now interpret them.
I think these 4 records all apply to the same man.

Record 1
Clonmel 28 May 1901
William Murphy Colour Sregeant no 2312 born Fethard 39 yrs
Formerly Royal Irish Regiment and RIR Battalion time expired
Height 5’ 11 3/4 “ 210 lbs Ruddy complexion; Grizzled Hair was brown; R C
Service
Home 1901
Mediterranean 1901-1904
South Africa 1904- 1905
Campaigns
Nile 1884-5
Black Mountains Expedition 1888
N.O.K.
Ellen Murphy Kilmolash
Mary Ellen Kilmolash both Clonmel

Enlisted 18yrs 12th November 1878
Previous service - Home/India/Afghanistan/ India/Egypt/Home/India/Home

“Wife died struck off the strength of the Battalion 18.12.02.”

I think the above means that Ellen was with him when she died.

There is a death in Army indexes

Ellen Murphy 31 yrs 1902 Malta go 58


I will try to shorten/combine the other records

[heywood]

Record 2
Much the same as 1 except:

Proceedings on Discharge

2312 Sergeant William Murphy
Royal Garrison Red 4th Battalion
Discharge 10.4.1905
Place of Discharge: Harrismith

Age 44 yrs 9 months ; height 5’11  3/4 “ ; same hair description as previously
Trade: Bricklayer

Intended Place  Residence
Prison Dept
Bloemfontein

Discharged in consequence of “ the reduction of establishment with a view to pension”.
Conduct and character both a Good
Received Bounty £11

Record 3
11 April 1878
William is 18yrs
5’ 5” tall, fresh complexion and brown hair.
Details lots of movement - countries listed earlier.
Discharged as Sergeant 11.11.1890.

[heywood]

This last record is interesting
Short Service Attestation
No.145 Wm Murphy R I Colour Sergeant
B Fethard
38yrs 5 months
Bricklayer
Married: No

Dated London 22 March 1900
38yrs 5 months; 5’ 11 1/8 “ ; dark complexion; hair G Black
Religion: Church of England

R I reserves
Clonmel  24.3.1900
Curragh  29.3.00
Promoted Col.Sgt 24.4.00

There is a blank page with the address: Avondale Cottage, Tadworth, Surrey but nothing else.
I have looked at 1901 census - nothing to indicate any connection.

[heywood]

It all seems good - just that marriage record with his mother as Margaret Cochrane is the difficulty.

[Karytay]

The first two definitely look like William's. The third one is interesting but a few differences from the other two.

Record two that you found mentions Bloemfontein and prison dept. which matches with his death notice.  Bloemfontein is in the Free State and this is were he stayed.

I think we are definitely getting some were with this.

William Murphy religion is RC. according to the 1901 census

Thanks heywwod

[heywood]

It could well be him. People didn’t always tell the truth, or whoever wrote it down might have just entered that for religion.
He wasn’t married at that time though, place of birth, rank  and occupation fits with another record.