Author Topic: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date? (Māori)  (Read 1928 times)

Offline Tikva

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Hi,

I am researching my children's Māori ancestry, and whilst they have their whakapapa through a female line, we are trying to find out their gread grandfather's parents names and beyond.  I do have the great grandfather's marriage printout, which provides me with names, but I would like to obtain more supporting evidence by trying to obtain a copy of his birth certificate.  Unfortunately, he was known by a number of names, some of them Māori, and others, English.  So I wanted to find out if there was a way to find the names of all Births on a specific date in New Zealand?  The date concerned is the 9th of July 1900, and this information was obtained from his death record.  Is there any way that I can do this?  Many thanks.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline TwiggyTree

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 19 January 20 05:39 GMT (UK) »
Short answer: no.

Longer answer: are you familiar with the General Birth Microfiche and the Maori Birth Microfiche?  It ought to be possible to look at the permutations of a name in a particular year for the General, and for the names in toto on the Maori records.

You could also have a go with the NZ Births, deaths, and marriages historical records website for that date and variations of the name to see if you get a hit:
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
...out of, through, and back from New Zealand to the ends of the Earth

FRYER - MITCHELL - DUKE - WHYTE - McDONALD - TAYLOR - CARPENTER - HARRIS - WILLIAMS - CUNNINGHAME - LUCAS - WHITE - BOTHAM - HOLDAWAY - EYLES - OLSEN - CHASE - TRAILL - BAGGS - HASKINS - EDWARDS - CHING - SHIELDS - POLLARD - HOGAN - SMITH - STANLEY - HALL - ROBERTS - LARKHAM

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 19 January 20 05:47 GMT (UK) »
Sorry I can’t help you Tivka, but I would recommend that you add “Maori” ancestry to your subject heading to attract the attention of those who might be able to help you.  :)

Just a thought .... as with all births in earlier generations anywhere in the world there is the possibility that the birth date is wrong. There are occasional threads about people who go through life celebrating their birthday on one date, when it had been wrong all along.  :) As for death certificates, the information on that is only as accurate as the knowledge of the informant. I’m not trying to discourage you, but if your search doesn’t find what you are looking for, you might need to expand the search.

As far as I am aware, there is no database in other countries which will give the names of everyone who was born on a particular date, however someone with NZ expertise will be able to confirm.

I’m sure someone will be along soon to help you. Good luck.

Added: TT beat me to it, but I will post this reply anyway.

Added: Have you considered a DNA test to see what matches you get? Other branches of the family may have more information. I am not sure about the take up rates for DNA tests in NZ, but you might be lucky. It would be best to test the oldest generation of the branch which includes your children’s g grandfather’s line, so their grandmother or grandfather if still living.

Offline Janette

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 19 January 20 06:43 GMT (UK) »
Maori births were not compulsory to register until 1913

Births in the Māori Registers (1913 – 1961) also include:
Entry number
Child (Tamaiti)

Date of birth (Te ra i Whanau ai)
Place of birth (Te kainga i Whanau ai)
First name (Te ingoa)
Sex (He tane he wahine ranei)
If stillborn (from 1935)
Father (Papa)

Name in full (Te Katoa o tona ingoa)
Residence (Kainga)
Tribe (Iwi)
Description (Ahuatanga)
Mother (Whaea)

Name in full (Te Katoa o tona ingoa)
Residence (Kainga)
Tribe (Iwi)
Description (Ahuatanga)
Informant (Kai Whakautu)

Name (and signature if given) (Ingoa me te hainatanga mehemea he pera)
Residence (Kainga)
Occupation (Tana Mahi)
Degree of relationship (if any) to child
(Whanautanga ki te tamaiti - mehemea he pera)
The record also notes the registry office and the provincial district in which the birth was recorded.

Cheers Janette


Offline spades

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date? (Māori)
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 19 January 20 07:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tikva,

From my experience I agree with Twiggy Tree, no, it's not possible.

I would suggest that you search the NZ Births, deaths, and marriages historical records website for variations of the name but using a wider date search in case, as Ruskie suggested, the date given might be incorrect:
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/

Maybe also try local history libraries, NZSG local branches, and the Whakapapa websites listed here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=477808.0

Spades
ELLERKER - Beverley ERY ENG
HEALEY - IRL?
MURDOCH - Wigtownshire SCT, Otago and Westland NZ
PALING - Nottinghamshire ENG
RILEY - Flamborough; Cottingham; South Dalton ERY, Manitoba CAN, & London ENG
STURTON - Arnold, Nottinghamshire ENG
SUTTRON - All, NRY & DUR ENG
TAYLOR - London ENG
TYLER - London ENG
TERNAN/TIERNAN - Dublin IRL

Offline TwiggyTree

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date? (Māori)
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 19 January 20 22:54 GMT (UK) »
Another possibility is that for a person of interest that I was researching, our library's Maori department (when they still had this) was able, based on the geography (Gisborne), to pull a book from their collection with all the genealogies in it.  This is only as a result of it being written about a particular waka (canoe) but you might also be so fortunate.

What I will say though is that the further back this genealogy went the less traditional it was, and couldn't be entered into our GEDCOM as a result of, in one example, there being 3 females involved with 4 males begetting one child.
...out of, through, and back from New Zealand to the ends of the Earth

FRYER - MITCHELL - DUKE - WHYTE - McDONALD - TAYLOR - CARPENTER - HARRIS - WILLIAMS - CUNNINGHAME - LUCAS - WHITE - BOTHAM - HOLDAWAY - EYLES - OLSEN - CHASE - TRAILL - BAGGS - HASKINS - EDWARDS - CHING - SHIELDS - POLLARD - HOGAN - SMITH - STANLEY - HALL - ROBERTS - LARKHAM

Offline Beg Clonrode...

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date? (Māori)
« Reply #6 on: Monday 20 January 20 00:44 GMT (UK) »
Quote from: Tikva
[...] a way to find the names of all Births on a specific date in New Zealand?

Hello... expanding Twiggy and Spades' earlier suggestions gives a fairly straightforward way of doing what you want, namely ***searching the BDM website by date. The main problem is that it's extremely time-consuming.

Having said that, I've done it a few times. Mixed success but my latest attempt did break a thirty year old brick wall, so never say never.

---

What's more pertinent to your search is mentioned by Janette. Pre-1913 registering of Maori births was optional.

According to the NZ Yearbook, even in the first year of compulsory registration (1913) there were still 17 Maori births registered under the (optional) main Act from a population base of 56,000-ish Maori.

In 1900, when the population base was 43,000-ish, registering under the (optional) main Act was all that was available. The number of Maori parents who chose to register wasn't recorded but you would suspect it to be just as low as 1913 if not lower, if not zero, although I have no proof of that.

My uneducated guess is that there will be no official birth record for you to find.

---

For what it's worth, if you want to put up the names of the child and/or parents I can search a list of 1900 births and see if they, or variants, are mentioned.

---

*** Searching the BDM website by date involves a combination of searching by "Registration Number" (e.g 1900/000001, then 1900/000002 [and so on] then 1900/29999, then 1900/30000) at the same time limiting the "Search From" and "Search To" to a specific date or dates (e.g Search From:2/7/1900, Search To:16/7/1900).

In this example there will be 30,000 individual search requests sent to the BDM website but the website will only return results for births which occur between the 2nd and the 16th of July 1900.

An extremely repetitive and time-consuming process but fortunately there is software which automates the search. I use the free version of UI.Vision RPA (formerly Kantu). There is also iMacros although last time I looked you needed to purchase a licence to use it fully.


Regards
Beg

EDIT: For anyone thinking the "muliple-search-request" method is abusing the BDM website... it would be incredibly easy for BDM NZ to implement a "wildcard" search option. Or a search by partial name or by date or by field. I gave up asking them several years ago.

EDIT 2: For this search to succeed the Registration Number needs to have a 1900 prefix

e.g 1900/XXXXXX

If the birth was a late registration with, for example, a 1901 prefix it would not be found... bit of a nuisance.

You could then do a 1901 births search requesting another 30,000 searches... but what if the birth was registered in 1902 ... and so on.

Offline Tgapitbull

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date? (Māori)
« Reply #7 on: Monday 20 January 20 02:20 GMT (UK) »
Further to other postings I am trying to do what you have asked.

I am looking for the birth of my grandfather who was born on 28 April 1890.  There is no registration with BDM under the name that he was known by - suspect he was illegitimate.  I have tried various family names with no success.

I recently made a request to access the Wellington birth register for 1890 but had to provide a name.  BDM advised that there was no registration with the name I provided for that date.
So I went to the local library and extracted all the male births for 1890 June quarter from the birth microfiche.  This is a very time consuming process which I did over 3 days. An initial check by narrowing down dates provided two possible candidates - further research has eliminated them.  When I narrowed down the dates using the online birth index date search function it still showed up people born outside these dates so I may need to re-check them.

I have checked local newspapers for births (illegitimate births not likely to be in newspaper) in Wellington/Christchurch  on 28 April 1890 and sent to BDM an Official Information Request (OIA) asking how many males were registered as being born in these places on the specific date so I can cross check to these numbers.

Last resort I have recently sent off a DNA test - fingers crossed!

In respect of Maori births you could try the Maori Land Court offices.  They have databases that you can check using names that you have - staff are very helpful.  The Minute Books contain a wealth of information including whakapapa.  I have recently found some 'gems' relating to the Tapsell whakapapa.

TPB

Offline Tikva

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Re: Is it possible to find out names of all people born on specific date? (Māori)
« Reply #8 on: Monday 20 January 20 03:31 GMT (UK) »
Thank you to everyone for your responses - I will go through them all and figure out my next step.   :)
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand