Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley

[majm]

Perhaps as an aside
I think John Patrick THOMAS may be this 1917 death :
Jno Patk THOMAS, aged 74, Kew, #5319.   Perhaps Letitia was the informant, but no mention on index of his parents info, still he was only a possible inlaw to Mary MINTON nee MURPHY.   

JM

[majm]

I cannot locate the thread at present re the ship 'Arundel' arriving 26 November 1852 but I have just sighted a passenger list, and it seems the original source would be PROV 

Thomas MINTON, aged 19, a Printer, of England contracted to land Port Phillip. 
Elsewhere on same list:
Benjamin MINTON, aged 21, also a Printer, of England, also contracted to land Port Phillip. 

Sorry for the diversion.  ADD, found the thread re Arundel... https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812596.0

JM

[odysseyov]

Hi Sue, JJ and JM,
Thank you for all the help and research time you are giving.   Here are some things that might help;
John Thomas and Letitia Murphy witnessed the marriage of Thomas and Mary Minton (at Brighton, Fox River NZ) 6/5/1867, and were married themselves November 1867 at Charleston (about 18km from Brighton).   Thomas and Mary did not witness and occupation of John Thomas is given as hotelkeeper.
The officiating minister for T/M marriage was Rev Father Emmanuel Royer.   The officiating Minister for J/L was Rev Stephen Hallum.  The No. on the Thomas/Mary Cert is 899, at BDM NZ it shows up as 1867/2999 under the name Winton - not sure why as all the "M"s look alike on the original - in fact it's very clear and if I could get my computer and camera to talk to each other I could post it    The No on the J/L Cert is 880 - just took it from my pile of papers

[odysseyov]

JM Neither Thomas nor Benjamin were printers;  Thomas was a painter/paperhanger when he wasn't a musician;  Benjamin was a painter/paperhanger and tried goldmining;  Richard (brother) was a plumber when he wasn't an actor and William (brother) tried gold-mining and then kept a painting/paperhanging shop.   Joseph was in the merchant navy.   I have details of all their marriages except Joseph who remained a bachelor.   Richard died 1864.   They are all quite visible and traceable - except for Mary

[odysseyov]

Have since found on BDM NSW for period 7/05/1848 - 31/12/1849 births for 8 Mary Murphys   None of them have Patrick Murphy and Anne Dolan as parents.   Mary's dead child was Maud Alice;  a Maud is mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread

[majm]

Re NSW bdm lists... for Early Church Records .... these are prior to commencement of Civil Registration, and are NOT births, but baptisms.   Also the online index does NOT give maiden surnames. 

Re Patrick MURPHY ...  ummm  Letitia THOMAS' death registration  in Victoria in 1924 has  John MURPHY and Ann DOOLAN as her recorded parents.

Have since found on BDM NSW for period 7/05/1848 - 31/12/1849 births for 8 Mary Murphys   None of them have Patrick Murphy and Anne Dolan as parents.   Mary's dead child was Maud Alice;  a Maud is mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread

I attach a snip from Arundel's passenger list.  I read it as Printer it is the occupation for Thomas MINTON, aged 19 etc...   Happy to stand corrected as I know 'a' and 'r' can be misread for each other. 

[odysseyov]

JM re E T Foley - just a few comments about syphillis -
a)  congenital syphillis depends on what stage of infection mother has reached during pregnancy cf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819963/
b)   Foetal infection is more likely during early stages but an infected mother can infect her foetus at least during first five years of infection https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/congenital-syphilis
c)   Primary stage sore appears 3 weeks after infection and primary stage usually lasts 3-6 weeks but can range from 10-90 days;  secondary stage appears 2-8 weeks after primary and if symptoms go away sufferer is said to be in Tertiary stage.   https://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/tm6404
d)   Untreated syphillis during pregnancy has an almost 100% rate of transmission to the foetus and
foetal or perinatal death occurs in 40% of cases. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/cripe/2012/934634/

So it's quite likely Mary was infected before not during her pregnancy although it could have occurred either way.   As for ETF, he was a gold miner;  and he fronted and took the rap for a brothel.
The suffragettes would have said he was responsible, directly or indirectly.   And the temperance ladies would have ... er ... castigated him. .   Until another candidate turns up, he looks like it.

[odysseyov]

JM you are justified in interpreting it as printer - I might have done the same.   I think the mistake here was with whoever wrote out the passenger list in the first place.

[majm]

Re Ann MURPHY

There is a baptism at St Patrick's at Parramatta NSW in 1844.   Sometimes on Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, a date of birth can be recorded, and names of sponsors as well.

This is for a baptism of John, born 17 February 1844 and baptised 3 March 1844 at St Patrick Church, Parramatta, a Roman Catholic service.  Clergyman :  Nicholas Joseph COFFEY

The register shows the father as James FRENCH, soldier in the 99th Regiment and the mother as Ann MURPHY.    ADD and in 1846, the 99th  Regiment went to NZ ... a Maori War...

The Sponsors were Patrick GORMAN and Mary MURPHY. 

The NSW BDM online index has the above baptism indexed and referenced as Volume 145, line 844 (of 1844).    No other entries for children of  James and Ann FRENCH, but there's TWO for James and Anne FRENCH,  daughter, Mary Anne or Mary A  ... Volume 62, line 886 of 1845 and Volume 134, line 2500 of 1845.   
To add to the confusion,  Volume 62 is for a Protestant baptism and Volume 134 is likely to be a complied volume, perhaps Roman Catholic of perhaps a mix of denominations.

ADD,  Mistaken info,  Volume 62 is definitely Roman Catholic, 
62 (Volume)    5021 (reel)    1-320 (line numbers in Volume)    Bap   1845   Roman Catholic
62 (volume)   5022    (reel) 311-2641 (end) (line numbers in Volume)   Bap   1845   Roman Catholic
 
JM mis-read her own trusty book.    Thanks to Rellies phoning me... mea culpa

But ... just because a New Zealand marriage has the bride as aged 18, does not mean the bride was actual 18.  She may have believed that was her age,  but it is not sensible to restrict any search for a bride to six months either side of the date of the marriage.  Throughout all of the British Empire, all through the 1800s, it was lawful for girls to marry once they reached 12 years of age  but if not yet 21, then, because they had not yet reached majority they did not have authority to consent to their own marriage, and so they needed consent from an adult with authority to give it ...    Same for boys, although they needed to be 14 before being of a lawful age to marry, but still they could not give their own consent until aged 21 or over.   

JM