Author Topic: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley  (Read 9113 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #135 on: Monday 09 December 19 22:48 GMT (UK) »
Agh, found back in 2014 on one of those earlier threads
Mary Murphy married Ggrandpa Thomas Minton in NZ  (Brighton, West Coast) in 1867.   She was 18 (needed permission to marry) and ggpa 34.   We've tracked ggpa right back to his hometown of Clerkenwell, London, UK, have his death notices and even a newpaper photograph (he was a musician).   But Mary is elusive.   They had six children, 2 born NZ, 2 born Victoria, 2 born NSW, the last one born and died in 1882.   Gma's birth certificate suggests Mary was born in Victoria, but try as we might we've been unable to find any details of Mary's parents, birth, siblings, or even her death.   We suspect a sister, Letitia, who appeared as a witness to Mary's Marriage and later the same year married John Patrick Thomas in Charleston, NZ.   But Letitia could have been a cousin or even an aunt.   Margarita Newberry gave permission to Mary;  but we can find no link via the NZ boards that ties Mary and Margarita together.   Can some kind, diligent, RootsChatterer (?) please suggest how we might find our Mary?     :-*

so try WINTON  for possible NSW sightings of Mary in NSW official records.   :)

1867/6997 Mary MURPHY and Thomas WINTON
1867/6937 Letitia MURPHY and John Patrick THOMAS 



JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #136 on: Monday 09 December 19 23:17 GMT (UK) »
So it seems Mary MURPHY had a sister Letitia, and Mary was possibly born Melbourne in around 1849.   So, as Melbourne was still part of NSW until 1851, and as Mary and Letitia may have been baptised Roman Catholics, but you have not found likely birth records in Victoria,  have you looked through the NSW BDM Early Church Records online index.... it is incorporated into their 'births' section.

So from NSW Archives you will learn that Roman Catholic baptisms in the years 1840 to 1855 may be in the NSW BDM volumes numbered 61-72.   Of course, NOT ALL church records made it to these sets, but it is worth a try, particularly with the less popular Christian name of Letitia...  :) .
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/births-deaths-and-marriages-registers-1787-1856

So look through the MURPHY baptisms at NSW BDM for the years 1840 - 1856 and look at the index reference numbers ...   As an aside Roman Catholic burials 1840-1856 will be in Vol 114-120 and Marriages in Vol 90-101  and of course  you should also cross reference with the  pdf for the Early Church Codes (but online these are only on the marriages index) https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Documents/early-church-codes.pdf
some background :
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/about-us/history-of-registry.aspx

Some family history background - well worth the re-read
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/family-history-research-nsw.aspx

And the actual online indexes
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?4

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline majm

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #137 on: Monday 09 December 19 23:58 GMT (UK) »
I have a number of elderly living relatives, some of whom have had significant admin careers in NSW government offices ... and in their retirement they have returned to rural and regional localities, near their rural farming siblings... so based of course in regional NSW, and at this current point in time, all are a tad worried about those affected by bushfires and ongoing drought issues  As they are excellent at appreciating the inner workings of form filling and book-keeping and getting the info in the 'right' option box etc, online and offline ... well ... they are a tad busy as volunteers helping those 'obtuse' aspects of government forms.... but for refreshing their concentration efforts one or two are still following my RChat posts ... and making good use of their phone skills.

So I am just posting my thoughts now, for 'everyone' to read and follow up... as I have been prompted by one or two of those rellies who have read through some of those linked threads.

Someone was wondering if Letitia, Mary’s sister and witness at Mary’s 1867 NZ marriage was perhaps named Letitia after their mum?

There is a death registered on the NSW BDM index for 1859 for a 23 year old lass who died in Sydney, named as Letitia MURPHY.  #1115/1859   If you are going to purchase that, don’t.  Order an official transcription instead … cheaper, and already transcribed by excellent, experienced and dedicated transcribers.  See RChat’s NSW Resources board for info.

Trove is an excellent online resource, particularly when you notice ‘age …. Years’ and ‘Died …..’ at the NSW BDM indexes in lieu of father and mother given names…. Tip = try Trove and look for Coroner Inquest.   Why?  Well the original indexers for NSW BDM were volunteers, early members of SAG and they made every effort to transcribe sufficient info onto their cards etc from the ‘mess’ of the record keeping officers at the NSW Reg Gen’s offices (BDM was part of the then Lands Titles Office, both were very poorly under funded from earliest times, and still are and Lands Titles have been sold off to private FOR PROFIT  without due regard etc )

Trove sightings of interest from my armchair this morning:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13032406  SMH 29 Oct 1859 … Inquest on Letitia Murphy.
AND THEN
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13032613  SMH 2 Nov 1859 … Coroner would have needed to reopen and hear that Letitia was 32, not 23, and that her right name was ….
So, I wonder if that 32 year old in 1859 was a mother, perhaps to two girls, and the girls were sent to NZ to live with relatives there? 

Just speculations of course… but striving to find names of parents of people in NSW after convictism ceased in 1840 and prior to civil registration commencement in 1856 or who came steerage and not on immigration schemes and who likely came suffering gold fever, and likely helped the population grow several times faster than the 80 or so years of convictism…   

I have a full agenda and may be a tad busy at real life matters during the rest of this week.  I may not have opportunity to actually concentrate on helping further on this or other threads, but I will try.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #138 on: Tuesday 10 December 19 00:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I admit to not having read previous threads from our OP, but for interest I do note that Letitia and her husband John Patrick THOMAS went to NZ too where two children were born. They also later went to Melbourne I think and there I  see a further three children up to 1888.

I can search for more after 1888 if needed.

Sue
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Offline Jamjar

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #139 on: Tuesday 10 December 19 00:31 GMT (UK) »
What are the names of the children born in VIC, Sue?

Could this be the death of Letitia?

15936/1924 THOMAS Letitia mother Ann DOOLAN father MURPHY John RICHMOND aged 79

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline majm

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #140 on: Tuesday 10 December 19 00:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue and JJ  :)

Can you please check on a death in Vic in 1924  I cannot get online to trove and I am hopeless on Vic searchings but death is for Letitia THOMAS,  father as John MURPHY and mother as Ann DOOLAN
she was 79


JM on e reader so there could be typos in my post sorry

EDIT  sorry JJ I am duplicating you  I dont get red warnings on this device

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Jamjar

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #141 on: Tuesday 10 December 19 00:46 GMT (UK) »
Not a problem at all, JM.  ;)

I checked Trove and the online cemeteries and can’t see her.

My guess is that she is at Melbourne General.

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline sparrett

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #142 on: Tuesday 10 December 19 00:51 GMT (UK) »
From Victorian Rates Books
Mrs. Letitia THOMAS

Residence on 14 Dec 1887
Residence Place-Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia
Owner Name:Ellen Hussey

The Victorian Births-
THOMAS. Parents John Patrick and Letitia (MURPHY)
Lucy Maud 1873/Reg 3997. N. Melb
Albert Edward 1875/Reg 3697. Melb.
Isabella May 1888/Reg 21105. Hawthorn

There is a death too THOMAS, Charles Grey. Aged 11 m. Born in New Zealand. Yr 1872/ Reg 1935.
Parents John THOMAS and Letitia MURPHY.

Sue
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Offline Jamjar

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Re: Mystery Man Edward Townsend Foley
« Reply #143 on: Tuesday 10 December 19 00:53 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, Sue.

Seems rather conclusive that it’s the correct folk.

A death: THOMAS Jno Patk parents unknown aged 74 5319/1917

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams